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Sorry for late reply,

No I don't have proof that James Moore is Henry's brother just as ArgyllGran stated just an assumption ,

No, it's not.
Jean just thought it seemed a reasonable assumption.

All we know about him is his name, and the fact that he was in Glasgow in 1869.

He's on several Ancestry trees as the brother of Henry and Jane - but there's no proof of age, POB, parents, anything.

You stated that the man who witnessed the 1869 marriage was the groom's brother - is that proven?

Thank you ArgyllGran for all the information again,

As you say Henry and James Moore are very common names and most of my lot are Henry and James , but I'll keep searching for James,

regards

jean

The prison record for Henry Moore is on Ancestry.


There's another Wandsworth Prison record for an Irish stoker named Henry Moore in 1873 - but that man has a slightly different YOB, (not that that means anything) , and a different physical description, so likely not the same man.
His crime was "Destroying his own clothes in Workhouse"

Henry Moore is a very common name, unfortunately. As is James Moore!

Just mulling all this over - and sorry to be a wet blanket -

As the only thing you know about the James who was a witness at the 1869 marriage is just his name and the fact that he was there, there is no reason to believe he was born c1843.

That's when the man who married Elizabeth Deens was born - but as you've said, that's probably not your James, and in any case none of the Ancestry trees offer any proof of that man's birth.


Re Elizabeth's husband 's immigration date - I'm afraid you can't go by the travel records posted by Maddie.

The man who travelled in 1860 on the "Zered" is probably this one, applying for naturalisation in 1908 - who was born in Strabane, and had a wife named Mary, also from Strabane:

James Moore
in the Pennsylvania, U.S., Federal Naturalization Records, 1795-1931
Name: James Moore
Petition Age: 64
Record Type: Petition
Birth Date: 16 May 1844
Birth Place: Ireland [ Strabane ]
Arrival Date: 1860 - approx 17 April 1860, on vessel "Bered"
Arrival Place: Philadelphia [ from Londonderry ]
Petition Date: 1 Jul 1908
Petition Place: Pennsylvania, USA
Spouse: Mary


The 1920 travel record isn't him, either.
The image of that record shows that man was born in Minnigaff, Scotland (coincidentally a place I know very well).
The Mary McDowall named in the record was his sister, who lived in Glenluce (not far from Minnigaff)

It's impossible to say if the 1864 travel record could be Elizabeth's future husband or not - there's only the name, age, and marital status "single".
There are lots of travel records for men named James Moore - and not all records have survived.

The fact that he is said to have been born in Londonderry (no proof) doesn't mean that he sailed from there when he emigrated.

And we don't know when your James was born in any case.

Thank you to everyone else for trying to find James.
I'm really not sure if the James who married Elizabeth Deens in Philadelphia is mine but I'll keep searching.

ArgylleGran,

Thank you so much for the information re Henry and the Kinsale.
It certainly looks as though this could be my Henry Moore on the prison records.
Can I ask where you found these prison records ?

Nothing about James, unfortunately.

But wondering if this can be Henry in 1871 - just a thought.
His marriage cert says he was a steamboat stoker, and he was aged 30 at marriage in 1869. (Although aged 40 in 1881 census, 48 in 1891 census, and 45 at death in 1891 )
He's also not at home with his wife in 1871, as you know. He could have been at sea on the night of the census - or in Ireland (see ship details below).


Henry Moore
in the UK, Prison Commission Records, 1770-1951
Name: Henry Moore
Gender: Male
Criminal Admission Age: 32
Record Type: Register
Birth Date: abt 1839
Birth Place: Ireland
Occupation: Stoker
Criminal Charge: Assault
Sentence: 2 Months
Criminal Admission Date: 29 Apr 1871
Criminal Admission Place: Surrey, England
Jail: Wandsworth Prison
Source Description: Wandsworth Prison, Surrey: Register of Prisoners

Height 5' 5", scars on back.





Re Steamship "Kinsale" -

https://www.clydeships.co.uk/view.php?ref=9795
https://tidesandtales.ie/hell-hole-horror-wreck-of-the-ss-kinsale/

That's the one thanks

so jane is connected to james via adress but what connects them to henry ??? and to the alleged parents john and mary

So this is one of your threads
https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1385675

On the 1880 census for James it shows 2103, Carpenter Street this is the same address as showing on Jane's death information.

Maddie,
I haven't found John's marraige or Henry's baptism.

this is the death record for jane but nothing to connect her
Name: Jane Moore
Birth Date: abt 1845
Birth Place: Ireland
Death Date: 31 Jul 1895
Death Place: Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Age at Death: 50
Burial Date: 4 Aug 1895
Gender: Female
Race: White
Street Address: 2103 Carpenter, 30 Ward
Cemetery: Mt. Moriah
FHL Film Number: 1011823

have you found johns marraige or henrys baptism

Henry Moore married Margaret Stewart in 1869 in Tadeston, Glasgow,
His parents were John Moore ( Watchmaker ) Dec'd and Mary nee Mullen.

Henry's occupation was Steamboat stoker his address was " The Steamship Kinsale ".
Can't find him in 1871.
1881 he is with his family at 68, Clyde Street,
1891 at 91, Yorkhill Street, Anderston, Glasgow.
Henry died 1891 at 91, Yorkhill Street , Glasgow.

Hi ErikaH,

I saw on Ancestry a lot of trees with James Moore same d.o.b , some of the trees with other ancestors the same as mine but now I really don't think this is my James .

The marriage record has ONLY the names of the couple - and those of the witnesses.

NO other info

Why have you picked on this record? Any reason to think it is relevant?

Any proof that the man emigrated?


EDITED

As you admit to having multiple threads on the same subject, I will bow out

Hi alviegal,

I'll have a look at the threads on here as I have quite a few about the Moore /Stewart family,