Find Ancestors

Tiger Desmond
Last name Redman
Publication year 2006
Issue date 21 Aug 2006
Issue number 58075
Periodical London Gazette
Country England
Record set London Gazette 1665-2018

He was a retired school teacher of March, Cambridgeshire. His solicitors are named and his personal representative is a Mary D A Foster.

Tiger Desmond Rupert
Last name Redman
Birth year 1924
Birth date 14 Jan 1924
Place Christ Church
County Barbados
Country West Indies
Event type Birth
Reference C 165869 145/3
Record set British Civil Service Evidence Of Age
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

COPY OF CERTIFICATE FROM MR R C REDMAN ON THE ENTRY OF HIS SON TIGER-DESMOND RUPERT REDMAN TO ROSSALL SCHOOL
The candidate TDR Redman is a British Subject and the son of British Subjects, all natural-born and of pure European descent. Mother born in London, England and father in Barbados B.W.I. Father's ancestry on both sides originally English and Scotch.

In other words the candidate is what is known locally as a 'pure white.' It is thought best to make the foregoing perfectly clear seeing that in Bermuda and the West Indies there is such a high percentage of African and/or negroid extract.

Signed R C Redman April 7th 1937

:-0 :-(

DNA only works if the other party has taken the test. It isn’t one-sided

Thanks for the many posts since yesterday. You have found what I had already found. Yes, Geraldine the daughter of a known 'uncle' Gerald died 2009. I has some comms with Gerlad before he died. DNA tests would not help further. I have messaged some posters here directly.
I have messaged a few descendants of WST or the Gollops from dna sites over the past year or so, but none have replied so as someone said - a brick-wall. I live in hope that one will reply and may be able to shead some light.
On a more postive note, I have recently contacted and been contacted back by a relative of one of Rebecca Dawson's sisters through a dna match and she is checking her gran's notes and is passing on what she can decipher - but nothing specific on Rebecca's situation 1897/1899 and subsequently - other than knowing she married 'the lodger' 'Jack' Cameron in 1920. Her gran was a witness to Rebecca's wedding 1920 and then Olive's wedding to the Barbadon in 1923. She knew about Tiger but no knowledge whether a wife or children - and none found in the search engines. As I say, DNA would not solve the WST mystery but might find my missing sister noted on the living relatives message board.
David
David

Although the 1939 Register says Gordon Walter & Elsie's son Gerald was born 1926, it was actually 1928.

THOMPSON, GERALD GORDON mmn JONES
GRO Reference: 1928 D Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 560


Gerald Gordon Thompson
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Gerald Gordon Thompson
Death Age: 77
Birth Date: 21 Sep 1928
Registration Date: Sep 2005
Registration District: Croydon
Inferred County: London, Surrey
Register Number: C91B
District and Subdistrict: 225/1C
Entry Number: 179


Mr Gerald Gordon Thompson
in the England and Wales, Death Index, 1989-2019
Name: Mr Gerald Gordon Thompson
Gender: Male
Age: 77
Birth Date: 21 Sep 1928
Last Residence: Coulsdon, Surrey, England
Postal Code District: Cr5
Death Date: 28 Sep 2005


Gerald Gordon Thompson
in the Surrey, England, Regimental Rolls and Recruitment Registers, 1914-1947
Name: Gerald Gordon Thompson
Event Date: 21 Oct 1946
Regiment Number: 19087368
Regiment: East Surrey


He's on the 2005 ER for Coulsdon, with an Edith May Thompson who is at the same address in 2014.
If she's his wife, the only feasible marriage I can see is in Kent in 1953, though the bride has no middle name listed.
If that's the right marriage, there's a daughter born 1954, who may have married in 1973.
If so she was living in Croydon in 2005, but died in Bromley in 2009.

I don't see any other possible children of the 1953 marriage - which may not be the correct one in any case.

If the 1954 birth is indeed Gerald Walter's daughter, and if she did marry in 1973, then there are births of a son and a daughter, both with unusual names, in Croydon.
The possible son was living in Croydon in 2005.
I can't see the daughter definitely after her birth.


Not much help finding living relatives, I'm afraid.

If the dental surgeons family are possible relatives then a request for them to take a dna test might help. Even an offer to pay for it.

It can take ages to get an obvious match. I eventually got 3 matches to my fathers male line but it doesn't take me back any further than I already have. ( Brick Wall). What I need is for all of us to link to another same person and then the wall might come down.

Olive went back to Barbados with Rupert. They had a son Tiger Desmond Rupert (or Rupert Desmond) , born in Barbados, died in Peterborough:

Olive here travelling with Tiger:

Olive Redman
in the UK and Ireland, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Name: Olive Redman
Arrival Age: 33
Birth Date: abt 1900
Port of Departure: Barbados
Arrival Date: 31 Mar 1933
Port of Arrival: Plymouth, England
Ports of Voyage: Dover; Barbados; Trinidad; La Guaira; Curacao and Kingston
Ship Name: Costa Rica
Shipping Line: Royal Netherlands Steamship Company Ltd

There are a couple of later travel records when she's on her own, inbound to the UK.


Tiger R D Redman
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Tiger R D Redman
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Birth Date: 14 Jan 1924
Residence Year: 1939
Address: The Corporation of Rossall School
Residence Place: Border, Cumberland, England
Line Number: 13
Schedule Number: 87
Sub Schedule Number: 9
Enumeration District: HCCC
Borough: Border
Registration district: 572/2
Household Members Age
Leslie H Trist 56
Judith M Trist 43
This record is officially closed.
Gerald E Fora 17
William D Anderson 16
This record is officially closed.
This record is officially closed.
Thos R Goodwin 15
Tiger R D Redman 15



Mr Tiger Desmond Rupert Redman
in the England and Wales, Death Index, 1989-2019
Name: Mr Tiger Desmond Rupert Redman
Gender: Male
Age: 82
Birth Date: 1924
Last Residence: March, Cambridgeshire, England
Postal Code District: Pe15
Death Date: 18 Jan 2006


Travelling alone, from Barbados to Rossall School:

Tiger D R Redmann
in the UK and Ireland, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Name: Tiger D R Redmann
Arrival Age: 13
Birth Date: abt 1924
Port of Departure: West Indies
Arrival Date: 14 Sep 1937
Port of Arrival: Plymouth, England
Ports of Voyage: Cristbal; Cartagena; Puerto Cabello; Puerto Colombia; Curacao; La Guaira; Trinidad; Barbados; Madeira and Dover
Ship Name: Simon Bolivar
Shipping Line: Royal Netherlands Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number: 3587


I don't see any marriage for him.
He's on the ER to 2004, in Cambridgeshire, but nobody else listed with him - not that that necessarily means anything..

John S Cameron
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: John S Cameron
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 8 Mar 1877
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 13 Royston Road
Residence Place: Penge, Kent, England
Occupation: Chemist's Stock-Taker
Line Number: 40
Schedule Number: 184
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: CKFQ
Borough: Penge
Registration district: 42-3
Inferred Spouse:
Rebeca M Cameron
Household Members Age
John S Cameron 62
Rebeca M Cameron 62
Elsie Thompson 39 [ wife of Gordon Walter Thompson ]
John S Thompson 12
Gerald G Thompson 13
Jeanne R Thompson 9
Joyce B Thompson 9
Tony Thompson 6

Rebecca later married her 1911 lodger, who had been in the RAMC during WW1 - a dispenser, who had also worked (served?) in South Africa during the Boer War:

Marriages Sep 1920 (>99%)
Cameron John S Dawson Camberwell 1d 2167
Dawson Rebecca M Cameron Camberwell 1d 2167

Gordon Walker Thompson
in the UK, Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services, 1848-1939
Name: Gordon Walker Thompson
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 18 Sep 1899
Birth Place: Kennington, London
First Service Date: 12 Dec 1917
First Ship Served On: President II
Last Service Date: 31 Mar 1918
Last Ship Served On: President II
Service Number: F43474


Gordon Walker Thompson
in the UK, Royal Air Force Airmen Records, 1918-1940
View Original Image on Fold3.
Name: Gordon Walker Thompson
Gender: Male
Age: 18
Birth Date: 18 Sep 1899
Birth Place: Kennington, London, London, England
Service Date: 12 Dec 1917
Service Number: 243474
Mother: Daisy
Next of Kin: Daisy
Relation to Airman: Mother


Gordon Walter Thompson
in the UK, World War I Pension Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923
View Original Image on Fold3.
Name: Gordon Walter Thompson
Rank: A. C. 1
Record Type: Card
Residence Place: S. E.
Discharge Date: 28 Mar 1919
Service Number: 243474
Title: WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers
Description: Other Ranks Survived
Reference Number: 11/M/154042
Next of Kin:
Name Relation to Soldier
Gordon Walter Thompson

The Ancestry tree implies that WST the dental surgeon was carrying on a double life, as DJStanley also suggests, from approx 1895-ish onwards.

Walter and Elizabeth, his wife, are together in 1901.
However, the tree claims he had two children (1897 and1899 with Rebecca Dawson (apparently sometimes known as Daisy) , whom he didn't marry (because he was married to Elizabeth).
Rebecca's listed as "spouse" - but probably only because there's no way to differentiate between a wife and a an unmarried partner.

It seems to be a well-researched tree with lots of documentary proof.

Rebecca is single in 1901, living on own means, and she and the children are all called Dawson.

Rebecca Maria Dawson
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Rebecca Maria Dawson
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Old Kent Rd, London, England
Civil Parish: Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: All Souls
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration District: Southwark
Sub-registration District: St Peter, Walworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors:
Piece: 376
Folio: 179
Page Number: 57
Household Schedule Number: 424
Household Members:
Name Age
Rebecca Maria Dawson 29
Olive Mary Dawson 4
Freda Walter Dawson 1 [ Gordon Walter on image ]


In 1911 she's a widow with private means:

Rebecca Maria Thompson
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Rebecca Maria Thompson
Age in 1911: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: LONDON, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Camberwell
Country: England
Street Address: 168 Underhill Road, East Dulwich S E
Marital status: Widowed
Occupation: Private Means
Registration District Number: 27
Sub-registration District: Dulwich
ED, institution, or vessel: 02
Piece: 2452
Household Members:
Name Age
Rebecca Maria Thompson 39
Olive Mary Thompson 14
Gorden Walter Thompson 11
John Sinclair Cameron 34 - lodger

I suspect the two marriages DJS mentions are those two children's marriages.

Births:

DAWSON, OLIVE MARY -
GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in ST GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 496

DAWSON, GORDON WALTER -
GRO Reference: 1899 D Quarter in ST SAVIOUR SOUTHWARK LONDON Volume 01D Page 155


London, England, School Admissions and Discharges, 1840-1911
Name: Olive Thompson
Gender: Female
Age: 8
Birth Date: 12 Feb 1897
Admission Date: 28 Aug 1905
School: Goodrich Road School
Father: Walter Thompson
Notes: Goodrich Road School (0694) opened in 1886. Reorganised to form Goodrich Primary School and Thomas Carlton Secondary School in 1951

Address: 154 Underhill Road. [ address in 1911 is 168 Underhill Road ]


If he was living a double life, perhaps he told Rebecca that he was a stockbroker, insurer, whatever, rather than a dentist, and therefore that's what the children believed. He died when they were only 7 and 9.


Olive's marriage??

Olive M Thompson
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Olive M Thompson
Registration Date: Apr 1923[May 1923] [Jun 1923]
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration District: Croydon
Inferred County: Surrey
Spouse: Rupert C Redman
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 716

Rupert Cheesman Redman seems to have been a doctor, born in Barbados, immigrated to Canada aged c18, fought for Canada and the UK in WW2.


Marriages Mar 1926 (>99%)
Jones Elsie Thompson Croydon 2a 561
THOMPSON Gordon W Jones Croydon 2a 561


Gordon W Thompson
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Gordon W Thompson
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 18 Sep 1899
Residence Year: 1939
Address: Kent County Mental Hospital Maidstone.
Residence Place: Maidstone, Kent, England
Occupation: Car Salesman
Line Number: 8
Schedule Number: 5
Sub Schedule Number: 172
OVSPI: Patient
Enumeration District: DIBS
Borough: Maidstone
Registration district: 51-3
Household Members

Thanks for the update Erika. It seemed the obvious thing to try as he was looking for several streams.

The poster doesn’t seem inclined to give details of the two marriages to which he refers, so we can’t help any further

namelessone

he has taken a DNA test, according to a PM I received

Name: Francis George Coningsby Ashmead-bartlett
Age: 21
Birth Year: abt 1893
Event Date: 18 Jun 1914
Parish: Holy Trinity, Bermpton
County: London
Spouse's Name: Phyllis Scott-Thomson
Spouse's Age: 21
Spouse's Parish: St George, Bloomsbury
Spouse's County: London
Event Type: Allegation
Reference Number: Ms 10091/291

Event Type Census
Name Walter A Thomson
Sex Male
Age 26
Event Date 1881
Event Place Camberwell, London,Surrey, England
Registration District Camberwell
Birth Year (Estimated) 1855
Birthplace Camberwell, Surrey, England
Marital Status Married
Occupation Dentist
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Page Number 23
Piece/Folio 673/117
Registration Number RG11
Walter A Thomson's Spouses and Children

Elizabeth Thomson
Wife
F
25
Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire, England
Gladys Thomson
Daughter
F
0
Camberwell, Surrey, England

I have just realised you have a different search on the find living relatives board. As your searches are quite complicated have you tried going down the dna route.


Out of interest I wonder if there was ‘something’ about dentists at this time. I have a friend with a very unusual dentist family. He was running both families at the same time and moved the children around both mothers.

The engagement is announced between C. Michael Hunter, eldest son of the late C.S. Hunter, M.A.. LL.B.. Inner Temple, and of Mrs Hunter, Enfield. Woking, to Marie Scott-Thomson youngest daughter of the late Walter Scott-Thomson, M.D.. M.R.C.S., and of the late Elizabeth Scott-Thomson. 19. Cavendish-place.

25 March 1914 - Surrey Advertiser - Guildford, Surrey, England

The post of Surgeon-dentist to the Camberwell Provident Dispensary, rendered vacant by the decease of Mr. R Tomson,. has been filled by the appointment of Mr. Walter Scott Thomson.

27 February 1875 - South London Chronicle - London, London, England


AN OVERDOSE OF OPIUM. RHYMNEY DOCTOR'S DEATH. On Tuesday evening Mr J. B. Walford held an inquest at Rhymney on the body of Mr Walter Scott Thomson (46), an assistant to Dr. Redwood. who was found dead in bed at his lodgings, Ivy House, Rhymney, on Sunday morning..

23 May 1900 - South Wales Daily News - Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales

On the 24th ins. at St. Mathews, Brixton, Mr. Walter Scott Thomson, LD.S, of Denmark Hill, to Elizabeth, daughter Mr G. Stimson, of Loughborough Park.

28 June 1879 - South London Press - London, London, England


Mr George Ashmead-Bartlett, second son of the late Sir Ellis Ashmead-Bartlett, was married very quietly on June 30 at Holy Trinity Church, Brompton, to Miss Scott- Thomson, third daughter of the late Mr and Mrs Walter Scott Thomson. The bride was given away by her uncle, George Stimpson, and was married from 33, Russellsquare, the residence of Miss Stimpson, her aunt.

08 July 1914 - Eastbourne Gazette - Eastbourne, Sussex, England

Not sure how this works but assuming this reply seen by all 19 replies to my post earlier today. Thank you.
Many have cited the WST I have found - seems to verify the only one with name/date that fits. I will look at the Walter Thompson from Kentish Town Road, insurance agent.
I too concluded that WST the dentist / come pharmacist/doctor could have dealt in shares and invested in Lloyds - especially if had had a double life - these occupations cited in 2 of supposed children's marriage certs - but not his children Iris etc from marriage to Eliz Stimpson. The WST cited died a tragic death in Wales - overdosed drink / opiates - newspaper reports say had money worries in London.