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PM received...thanks, Deborah

It transpires that there are other connected threads.

Yes, and you were really very helpful in putting it all together at the time, thank you.

Is your assumption of a 1935 birth based on someone's tree?

The Mothers parents, grandparents & g grandparents are in the tree of the person I PM'd to you, albeit the details are very sparce, hardly any detail, so I followed it through using census records, and WW1 army record of Great Grandfather. I am happy that it is all correct. They were all in the same area, Paddington, going back to 1901.

I found the Mothers birth, Sheila M Jones 1936, Paddington, MMN Forder. I traced the name Forder back to her Great GrandParents.

Then I found a marriage, Sheila M Jones to John A Campbell first qtr 1957. Paddington. I was looking for a husband with the surname Campbell.

You need the marriage cert.

These people may be living, so consideration and care are needed, as I know you realise.

I will order it, thanks again ErikaH, I will be careful.

I have now received the certificates and have been able to confirm that the parents of John Anthony Campbell 18 Apr 1935, were John Campbell 31 August 1898, Butcher, and Elizabeth Veronica Campbell nee Kirk, 16 Aug 1911, I have found all 3 of them on the 1939 register living at 38 Tavistock Road, Notting Hill, Kensington, London. John Anthony is a closed record on Ancestry but he appears on the 1939 register on FMP.

At the time of John Anthony's birth they were living at 31 St Marys Terrace Kensington, I found them on the ER there in 1935 and 1936.

When John Anthony married Sheila in 1957 John Campbell, butcher is stated as dec'd. I then found another marriage for Elizabeth Veronica Campbell nee Kirk to a Daniel L Jenkins, 1951 Paddington.

I have been told that John Campbell 1898 "vanished" around the time of WW2, I am thinking he may have been killed in action. The family do not know what happened to him. I do know he was in WW1 as I have found his military records, he is stated as a butcher, his Mother is stated as Annie Campbell, 9 Howe Street, Belfast, Annie Campbell nee White was my GG Aunt and sister of my G Grandmother Mary Lynn nee White.

After extensive searching over the weekend I have been unable to find the following records:

the marriage between John Campbell 1898 and Elizabeth Veronica Kirk 1911

the birth of Elizabeth Veronica Kirk, who I have been told was born in Newtonards, Co Clare, N.Ireland

and a death for John Campbell 1898

I am pleased to have been able to confirm that I have the correct parents for John Anthony, using the certificates and cross referencing all the above records, and can now connect them with my Great Grandmother Mary Lynn nee White. If I cant find the above records I will leave it at that, but;

I would be really grateful if you could kindly just cast your expert eyes over this for me to see if you can see the missing records I mentioned above.

Thank you in advance.

There's this birth in Newtownards - but not quite the date you mention, and no middle name:

SR District/Reg Area - Newtownards
Birth of ELIZABETH KIRK on 19 August 1911
Name ELIZABETH KIRK
Date of Birth 19 August 1911
Group Registration ID 582148
SR District/Reg Area Newtownards
Sex Female
Mother's Birth Surname GILLAN

Father: James Kirk, sergeant in Royal Irish Rifles.
Address: John Street Lane, Newtownards.

Mother: Mary Kirk, formerly Gillan.

Yes, I saw that one, but in the absence of the middle name!! she is definitely Elizabeth Veronica Campbell nee Kirk on the sons birth certificate , its becoming a bit of a mystery.

Just correcting my post from 8.19 today.

The marriage I found to Daniel L Jenkins 1951, Paddington, was to Elizabeth "Campbell or Kirk" (That's how it is written)

On the 1939 register the name Campbell has been struck through and overwritten Jenkins.

The only mention of the middle name Veronica is on the sons birth certificate, she was also down as just Elizabeth Campbell on the ER in 1935 and 1936.

Re 1939 -
the name Campbell was changed to Jenkins when the Register was updated following her marriage.
The date of amendment (not the date of marriage) is written in the left-hand column - though unreadable in this case, as mostly obscured by tape.

Re the 1951 marriage -
the fact that Elizabeth's surname is shown as "Campbell or Kirk" implies that she was not married to John Campbell, but only used his surname.

Re the DOB -
DOBs on the 1939 Register are often slightly inaccurate, though the error is more usually with the year rather than the day or month.

That is really interesting, thank you, I was beginning to wonder if they were ever actually married, I was wondering whether to order Elizabeth's marriage certificate to Daniel, it may throw up something.

Just odd that I cant find her birth entry. Unless the one you posted is the correct one, just makes me wonder where the Veronica came from.

Yes, the marriage cert could be helpful.
It would at least give her father's name, if she knew it, and should also give her marital status when she married.


In case the birth is the correct one, here are her parents and siblings in 1911 (before she was born):

James Kirk
in the Web: Ireland, Census, 1911
Name: James Kirk
Residence Date: 2 Apr 1911
House Number: 9
Townland/Street: John Street Lane
District: Newtownards Urban
County: Down
Country: Ireland
Electoral District: Newtownards Urban
Relationship: Head
URL:
Household Members Age Relationship
James Kirk Head [ no age or birthplace given ]
Mary Kirk 32 Wife, Paisley, Scotland
Peter Kirk 7 Son
Joseph Kirk 5 Son
Mary Kirk 4 Daughter
Patrick Kirk 1 Son

All the children born in Co Down.
The parents had been married for 13 years, and had had 6 children, of whom 2 had died.
Mary and the children are all listed as Roman Catholic.

Looking at the image of the document - James signed the form, but didn't list himself on it.
He signed as "Jas Kirk, Co Sergt, 4th Bn Royal Irish Rifles".

The parents' marriage:

GILLON MARY
KIRK JAMES
1897
573/1 669
Paisley

Thank you so much ArgyllGran, the way forward will be to order the certificate.