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Already posted, but.........................

Births Sep 1913 (>99%)
Syrett Charles A Ballard Holborn 1b 1109

Just a quick up date regarding Grace Syrett's birth it was actually 12th November 1907.
Arthur Charles Ballard Syrett had another son in 1913 called Charles Arthur Syrett and I have ordered the birth certificate for him but not sure as yet if the Alice with him in 1939 is Charles Syrett's mother. The certificate should be arriving later in the week.

If the Alice with Arthur in 1939 at Lever Street is not Alice Minshull, there is no way to find out her maiden name.

There is no second marriage for Arthur, and no children with them in 1939 who might have been a clue.

Hi ErikaH
I think you are right. This has to be Arthur Charles Ballard Syrett. The Alice who is living with him in the 1939 register is not the Alice Hannah Minshull he was originally with. If we could find her maiden name that would clear a lot of things up.

It looks like Alice Minshull got with John Sawyer in 1908 because her first child with him is born in the first quarter of 1909. Alice's daughter Grace was born in July 1907 and I have her birth certificate with Arthur Charles Ballard Syrett as her father, unless of course he left just before Grace was born or just after.
With regard to Alice living at Woodbury Down with a William Perrin in 1956 I am not sure about after speaking to my parents who took me to see Alice around 1956 and she was still living at Retford Street. I need to do some more research.
Once again many thanks for all your hard work,

The Arthur Syrett on 1939 register is definitely the son of Charles - as per his school admission record. DoB is identical

Kay mentioned PWC written beside Arthur's name in 1939.

A Google search brings up a few possibilities, but Post War Credit seems to be the favourite:

For example:

https://www.british-genealogy.com/forum/threads/75162-Post-War-Credit-Certificate
tinyurl.com/ptimlxln
https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/81/a7970781.shtml

Also in the 1911 census,,,theSawyer household.

Arthur aged 8 against his name is written,,,,,pre- marrage,

Also number of years married,,,,,,9 is crossed out and 7 written.

Re ages of the Alices -

See my post on 9 Feb at 10:08, about the deaths of Alice Syrett in 1983 and Alice Hannah Sawyer in 1970

Also my post on 9 Feb at 15:28, re the death of Alice H Perrin in 1968.

Douglas,,,the numbering 35-1 etc. is only a prefix for each related person in the same household. not any connection to marriages,

The ages on the 1939 register were taken when the registering was complied and people themselves did give the information,

I'm sure that in 1939 Alice wasnt with J Sawyer as the date of birth of completly different to the one with Arthur,also this was tkane by the government and could possibly be classed as false information to be listed with two different men at seperate addresses.

In 1939 against Arthurs name is beside his oc c is---PWc 190/19966.,,,wether its to do with the work he was in ? or signed up as a fire watcher or a war time effot in something else. but many times APR ( air warden) is seen or others ,,

,

You say,
" I have tried looking for a marriage for Arthur Charles Syrett after he left Alice Syrett (Minshull) but I had no success."

Interesting - I had assumed she had left him, and moved in with John Sawyer - but of course he could have left her. Do you have evidence of that? Or family legend?

(It appears he didn't marry again.)

The 1935 Register records give DOBs - though they're often a year or two out.
The day and month are more often correct then the year.
The recording clerks just wrote what they were told by the people concerned - and may also have made an occasional mistake in writing them down.

You asked about 35 1 and 35 2.

35 is "Schedule number" and 1 and 2 are "Sub-schedule number".
Each household had a different schedule number (35 in this case) , and then the people in that household were numbered 1, 2, 3, and so on as required.
There were only 2 people in the Syrett household.

Those numbers have nothing to do with whether they were married or not.
Marital status was shown in a different column.
ErikaH posted FindMyPast's transcription, and "married 35 1" is just the way it looks on the transcription - but not on the original.

This is Ancestry's transcription, which shows the same information in a different way:

Alice Syrett
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Alice Syrett
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 23 Aug 1889
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 35 Chadworth Building Lever St E.C.1.
Residence Place: Finsbury, London, England
Occupation: Office Cleaner
Line Number: 7
Schedule Number: 35
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: AFUI
Borough: Finsbury
Registration district: 14/1
Inferred Spouse:
Arthur Syrett
Household Members Age
Arthur Syrett 55 - [ 13 Sept 1884, married, electrician's mate ]
Alice Syrett 50

I've added Arthur's DOB, marital status and occupation to that copy myself, as on Ancestry each person's full details only show up in the transcription if you look at that particular person.
But it's all there on the image of the document.

ErikaH
I did take note on the school admissions and the baptism date for both Arthurs. Perhaps Albert was not baptised and I can only presume that Albert went to the same school as his brother Arthur. Many thanks.
On your post regarding the 1939 list with Arthur and Alice living at 35 Chadworth buildings Lever Street was there dob already on the list or did you add them and could you please tell me what married 35 1 and married 35 2 means.
I am wondering if this Alice on the 1939 list is a completely different one from Alice Hannah Minshull. I have tried looking for a marriage for Arthur Charles Syrett after he left Alice Syrett (Minshull) but I had no success. Frustrating

Harking back to the baptism posted by Kay - this is the GRO birth

SAWYER, CHARLES GEORGE COOK
GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 30

I posted the freebmd version earlier - together with the child's death

These are that child's parents

Marriages Sep 1896 (>99%)
Cook Alice Amelia Holborn 1b 1469
Sawyer John Holborn 1b 1469

No records on Ancestry of baptism or school for Albert born October 1906

Did you take note of the School admission info for Arthur????

ErikaH,
I have just ordered the birth certificates for Charles Arthur Syrett b. 1913 mothers maiden name Ballard ,this was the maiden name of Arthur Charles Syrett gran. The other birth certificate I have ordered is for Alice Syrett b. 1914 mothers maiden name Minshull. I will hopefully have them by next week. The John Syrett and Alice Syrett mentioned are Arthur Charles Ballard Syrett's great uncle and aunt. I personally think that Arthur Charles Ballard Syrett and Alice Syrett (Minshull) never got divorced.
The Alice found at Woodberry Down could be correct because her daughter Grace moved there and Grace's daughter lived there also. I have a copy of Grace wedding certificate and in the name section it states Grace Sawyer, father's name John Syrett which should read Sawyer, and Grace signs it as Grace Syrett..
My grandfather Albert got married in 1926 as a Sawyer but it was amended in the margins in 1927 to Syrett. Strange times. Is possible to find out where Albert Syrett was baptised and what school he went to.
Many thanks

Name: Arthur Syrett
Gender: Male
Age: 5
Birth Date: 13 Sep 1884
Admission Date: 21 Oct 1889
School: Hamond Square School
Father: Charles Syrett
Notes: Hammond Square School opened in 1873. Remodelled in 1912 and later renamed Burbage Primary School

Working back.............not a direct line to Arthur

1939

John W Synett 02 May 1909 Male Bricklayer Labourer Heavy Worker Married 20 1
Euphemia M Synett 05 Mar 1912 Female Machinist Hand Bag Married 20 2



SYRETT, JOHN WILLIAM BRIND
GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN Volume 01C Page 147

Marriages Jun 1898 (>99%)
BRIND Emma Mile End 1c 774
Syrett Thomas Edwin Mile End 1c 774

SYRETT, THOMAS EDWIN BURNS
GRO Reference: 1876 S Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 635

1911
17 Wennington Road Bethnal Green, Bethnal Green, London & Middlesex
Thomas Syrett Head Married Male 35 1876 Wood Cutting Machinist Bethnal Green London
Emma Syrett Wife Married Female 35 1876 - Bethnal Green London
Emma Syrett Daughter - Female 12 1899 - Bethnal Green London
Thomas Syrett Son - Male 9 1902 - Bethnal Green London
Alfred Syrett Son - Male 8 1903 - Bethnal Green London
Amelia Syrett Daughter - Female 6 1905 - Bethnal Green London
Evelyn Syrett Daughter - Female 4 1907 - Bethnal Green London
John Syrett Son - Male 2 1909 - Bethnal Green London
May Syrett Daughter - Female 2 1909 - Bethnal Green London

Oh yes, missed that.
So 1911 above may well be him.

He was only with the RGA for two months, as per my post on page one - they kicked him out for lying about his age. Hardly had time even to complete basic training ;-) ;-)

Arthur in India in 1911 ??

Charles Syrett
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Charles Syrett
Age in 1911: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Birth Place: St Pancras, Mx
Search Photos:
Country: England
Rank: Private
Military Unit: Infantry
Registration District Number: 641
ED, institution, or vessel: India
Piece: 34988


It says he's single - but I seem to remember reading somewhere that army privates were all listed officially as single even if they weren't?
And if Alice had left him for John Sawyer, then perhaps he was, technically.

However, this was the 3rd Middlesex Regiment, which doesn't match his 1901 army record posted on page 1, which says he was with the Royal Garrison Artillery.

Unless he left the RGA, and joined up again later, chances are that isn't him in 1911.

John Sawyer on London ER:

1937 - at 51 Retford Street, as in 1939, with Alice.

Still there in 1946, with Alice, Margaret, and Mary - all Sawyer.
And in 1947, all three of them.
1950 & 1954, only John and Alice, same address.


??? Maybe ??
Deaths Mar 1955 (>99%)
SAWYER John 79 Shoreditch 5d 594

Arthur Syrett had also died in 1956.
Alice (assuming she had indeed been juggling two partners) was therefore doubly free to marry William Perrin in 1956 - already posted.


Marriage of daughter Margaret G, born 1924-5 (birth posted on page 1):

Margaert G Sawyer
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Margaert G Sawyer
Registration Date: Oct 1947
[Nov 1947]
[Dec 1947]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District: Shoreditch
Inferred County: London
Spouse: Stanley R Wilkinson
Volume Number: 5d
Page Number: 1240


Margaret Gladys Wilkinson
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Margaret Gladys Wilkinson
Death Age: 68
Birth Date: 30 Dec 1924
Registration Date: Mar 1993
Registration District: Weymouth
Inferred County: Dorset
Register Number: B2D
District and Subdistrict: 4331B
Entry Number: 290