Find Ancestors

Think I need too. These lot are costing me a fortune haha.

Get a copy of the 1948 marriage certificate to see what James said about his marital status

Thanks Erika. If this is correct did they get divorced?

??

First name(s) Violet
Last name Hartshorn
Gender Female
Birth day 9
Birth month 11
Birth year 1912
Age -
Death quarter 2
Death year 1987
District Richmond (Yorkshire)
Register number 587
County Yorkshire
Volume 2
Page 2130

Have you now accepted that the 1939 death can't possibly be relevant?

Marriage certificate has arrived. Grimsby 1938 James William Mcdonald married Violet Thompson age 25 widow, father Arthur Hartshorn deceased.
Looks like she was born 1912 mmn Nutter.
Married Walter Thompson 1933 Leeds.
So what happened to Violet after 1939?

Wow. Thanks Kay. I’ll check this out.

The same James William McDonald.?

Doc True
LEEDS ASSIZES
LEEDS ASSIZES
Thank you. sir." AFTER THE PICTURES." Grimsby Man's Story of Struggle With Intruders. A Grimsby man's desperate struggle with two intruders was described at the police court yesterday when James William McDonald, fisherman, and Thomas McDonald. laboure
05 December 1935 - Leeds Mercury - Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Doc True
SENTENCE TO STAND.
SENTENCE TO STAND.
An application by James William McDonald, who was sentenced to 21 months' hard labour at Grimsby Borough Sessions for burglary, for leave to appeal against his conviction and sentence was dismissed by the Court'of Criminal Appeal yesterday
11 February 1936 - Leeds Mercury - Leeds, Yorkshire, England

:-S :-S :-S :-S :-S :-S :-S :-S

I've spoken to Freda's brother in the last hour. He lives locally to me. I've sent him what I have already, hopefully it will throw up some memories/stories.

Think its a case of wait and see when the Marriage certificate arrives. Could be a while in the current climate sadly.

So grateful for your time once again!

???

Marriages Mar 1960 (>99%)
GOODWIN William McDONALD Grimsby 3b 623
McDONALD Violet GOODWIN Grimsby 3b 623

But I don't see her death under that name.


EDIT:

I see Megs has already asked for investigation into that marriage, in 2009:

https://www.genesreunited.co.za/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1187919

I'm not sure if the suggested death posted there, and copied here, is the woman who married William Goodwin or not.
But it's certainly not that of Violet 1912:

Name: Violet Goodwin
Birth Date: 6 Mar 1903
Death Registration Month/Year: Sep 1985
Age at death (estimated): 82
Registration district: Boston
Inferred County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 7
Page: 1247

Look at the facts, please, Megs.

She couldn't have died BEFORE Sept 1939.............IF you've got the right woman on the 1939 register

I thought that one too mmn Lowe. Hopefully the marriage certificate will arrive soon.

I sort of dismissed Violet when I first came across her as they had no children that I know of. Also struggled to find anything on her after 1939.

But obviously when the story came to light I thought Violet might be the one James family was referring too, as I was told by a cousin. I think he could be confused.

James sister Lily was a childhood friend of one of the wives. Also Lily was a witness at the marriage of James and Freda.

The death in AMJ qtr 1939 cannot be the woman who married J W Mcdonald, as she was alive in Sept 1939........unless that 1939 entry is a different Violet Macdonald


Possible births
Births Sep 1912 (>99%)
Thompson Violet Grimwood Sculcoates 9d 455
Thompson Violet Rogers Manchester 8d 484

......................unless Violet was a widow when she married in 1938

Re Evelyn being with James in 1939, and Violet being at a different address -

it sounds as if James and Violet had already separated, and Evelyn had moved in with him.

Violet was in the Land Army, per 1939 - but as she was still living in Grimsby, that can't be relevant.


If this is the possible death you found for Violet, either the DOB 3 July 1912, stated in 1939, is wrong (which wouldn't be uncommon), or else the informant at her death didn't know her exact age:

Violet Thompson
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Violet Thompson
Death Age: 25
Birth Date: abt 1914
Registration Date: Apr 1939
[May 1939]
[Jun 1939]
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration District: Grimsby
Inferred County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 7a
Page: 644

If that is her death, and if they had separated, as seems likely, then she must have just reverted to her maiden name. [ EDIT: No that death is before the 1939 Register was compiled.],

1939 doesn't show any later surname for her, so presumably she didn't remarry

Name: Mary Jane Crabtree
Registration Year: 1877
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Richmond
Inferred County: Yorkshire North Riding
Volume: 9d
Page: 883
Records on Page:
Name
Mary Jane Crabtree
James McDonough

1891
Name: Jane Mc Donough
[Jane Crabtree]
[Mary Jane McDonough]
[Jane McDonough]
Gender: Female
Age: 33
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1858
Child: James Mc Donough
Thomas Mc Donough
Alice Mc Donough
Birth Place: Richmond, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Richmond
Ecclesiastical parish: Richmond
Residence Place: Richmond, Yorkshire, England
Registration District: Richmond
Sub registration district: Richmond
ED, Institution or Vessel: 3
Piece: 4036
Folio: 48
Household Members:
Name Age
Jane Mc Donough 33
James Mc Donough 14
Thomas Mc Donough 4
Alice Mc Donough 7/12


MCDONAUGH, JOHN JAMES CRABTREE
GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in RICHMOND UNION YORKSHIRE Volume 09D Page 699

Name: Alice Mary Macdonough
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 1 Oct 1890
Baptism Place: Richmond, York, England
Mother: Mary Jane Macdonough


Name: Alice Mary McDonough
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Registration Year: 1891
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 1
Registration District: Richmond

1881

Name: John James Mc Donald
[John James McDonough]
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relationship to Head: Son
Mother: Jane Mc Donald
Gender: Male
Where born: Hoegill Richmond, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Richmond
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address: Castle Hill
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration District: Richmond
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4879
Folio: 52
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
Jane Mc Donald 26
Tamar Mc Donald 5
John James Mc Donald 3
(not transcribed)

Posting in connection with the other thread - rather than resurrect it from 2008

Name: James William Mcdonald
Gender: Male
Age: 19
Birthdate: 1912
Marriage Date: 8 Oct 1931
Marriage Place: Great Grimsby, Lincoln, England
Spouse: Freda Greenaway Lainchbury
Father: John James Mcdonald

Name: John James Mcdonald
[John James Mcdonough]
Death Date: 5 Jun 1956
Burial or Cremation Date: 8 Jun 1956
Burial or Cremation Place: Lincolnshire, England

Deaths Jun 1956 (>99%)
McDonald John J 79 Grimsby 3b 218

Name: Annie McDonald
Death Date: 6 Apr 1941
Death Place: Lincolnshire, England
Cemetery: Scartho Road Cemetery
Spouse: John James McDonough

Deaths Jun 1941 (>99%)
McDonald Annie 64 Grimsby 7a 1408


Name: Mary Jane Mcdonough
Gender: F (Female)
Birth Date: 1855
Birth Place: Richmond, Richmondshire District, North Yorkshire, England
Death Date: 25 Jan 1900
Death Place: Richmondshire District, North Yorkshire, England
Cemetery: Richmond Cemetery
Children: John James McDonough
Thomas James McDonough

This suggests a possible change of surname - probably due to how it was 'heard', rather than anything untoward

1939.....possibly

John J Macdonald 19 Apr 1875 Male Fisherman Married 269 1
Annie Macdonald 16 Jun 1875 Female Udd Married 269 2
Freda K Cant (Macdonald) 01 Dec 1931 Female School Age Single 269 3
Gordon T Macdonald 23 Aug 1933 Male School age Single 269 4
~??? Evelyn E 26 Jun 1913 Female UDD Single 269 5


Births Mar 1932 (>99%)
McDonald Kathleen F Lainchbury Grimsby 7a 868



More about James W
James William McDonald
in the Web: UK, Royal Naval Reserve Service Records Index, 1860-1955
Name: James William McDonald
Birth Date: 11 Jul 1912
Birth Place: Goole, Yorkshire
Date: 1908-1955

I don't have Evelyn's death certificate. She was actually his third wife.

His family wasn't referring to Evelyn as she was with him when the family accused him.

His second wife was Violet Thompson married 1938, looks like she possibly died 1939, but records show death in maiden name?

I'm just waiting for the marriage certificate for them.

Violet is on the 1939 register as McDonald, married but James isn't there.

James naval record shows him living back of 81 Weelsby Street in 1939.

Another thing I found strange was, Evelyn is on the 1939 register living back of 81 Weelsby Street living with James parents and his to children to Freda.

Evelyn and James didn't marry until 1948, which I also found strange.

Evelyn was disowned by her family because of James, not a very nice man.

Luckily I never saw that side of him, although Evelyn went to her grave with a black eye.

Your related thread about her husband:

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1010917

Do you have his second wife's death cert? ( Evelyn Ethel Cook, per the other thread.)

Even if you can't find Freda's inquest report, you could see if the cause of Evelyn's death was something for which he might be blamed.


It sounds as if Freda's death was unexpected, in spite of the fact that she'd had an operation, and therefore the inquest was ordered.
Cardiac failure wasn't his fault.
But perhaps the family thought he should have sought medical help for her sooner, when the symptoms which led to the operation first showed themselves.
Pure speculation on my part, of course.

"The majority of post mid-18th century records of inquests are held at local archives and not The National Archives. Not all coroners’ inquests have been selected for permanent preservation."
https://tinyurl.com/y6wdzy6c



https://www.lincsinspirelibraries.com/web/arena/links-to-nelc-local-history

There might also be a report in a local newspaper.