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Hello, update: Marriage certificate arrived today which I thought was very quick ! Her father was John Williams and his occupation is given as 'Farm Bailiff'. I have looked at the Holm Lacy, Herefordshire, John Williams several times, it would seem to be the answer.. I'm thinking that John returned to Herefordshire and Mary decided to remain in Skenfrith and 2 of her younger siblings stayed with her (1881 census). Would that make sense given the available evidence ? And by the way, thank you all for the research you've done !

1861

Name: John Williams
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Robert Williams
Mother's Name: Ann Williams
Gender: Male
Where born: Holm Lacy, Herefordshire, England
Civil Parish or Township: Skenfrith
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration District: Monmouth
Sub-registration District: Dingestow
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Household Schedule Number: 38
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3985
Folio: 62
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Williams 52
Ann Williams 46
Richard Williams 26
John Williams 23
Andrew Williams 7

Re your last two posts -

I agree that the name William for Emma's father on her baptism record is just human error, and should be John.

ErikaH has posted 1861 showing that Louisa's mother was Mary, and Mary seems to be living with young Mary, Emma and Arthur in 1881.



Re Sophia - I can't find an mmn which is the same for all her apparent children in the censuses:

Sophia Williams
in the 1901 Wales Census
Name: Sophia Williams
Age in 1901: 67
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Wife
Spouse: Thomas Williams
Gender: Female
Where born: Glascoed, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Skenfrith
Ecclesiastical parish: St Bridget
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration District: Monmouth
Sub-registration District: Monmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 23
Piece: 4924
Folio: 86
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Williams 57
Sophia Williams 67


Thomas Williams
in the 1891 Wales Census
Name: Thomas Williams
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sophia Williams
Gender: Male
Where born: Skenfrith, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Skenfrith
Ecclesiastical parish: Skenfrith
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration District: Monmouth
Sub registration district: Dingestow
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors:
Piece: 4341
Folio: 92
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Williams 50
Sophia Williams 55 - Old Castle, Mon.
Maria Williams 15 - daughter
Herbert Williams 9 - grandson
Earnest Williams 6 - grandson

WILLIAMS, HERBERT -
GRO Reference: 1882 M Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 30

??
WILLIAMS, ERNEST OCTAVIUS -
GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 37

??
WILLIAMS, MARY JANE mmn WATKINS
GRO Reference: 1876 M Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 51



Sophia Williams
in the 1881 Wales Census
Name: Sophia Williams
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Thomas Williams
Gender: Female
Where born: Skenfrith, Monmouth, Wales
Civil Parish: Skenfrith
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: Bryngerth
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Registration District: Monmouth
Sub registration district: Dingestow
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors:
Piece: 5226
Folio: 102
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Williams 42
Sophia Williams 49
Elioner Williams 13
George Williams 8
??Ria Williams 5

??
WILLIAMS, ELEANOR ANN mmn WATKINS
GRO Reference: 1866 J Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 37


But George -

??
WILLIAMS, GEORGE ANDREW mmn MEREDITH
GRO Reference: 1873 M Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 37

George Andrew, born Skenfrith, is in later censuses with wife Catherine (nee Long)

George Andrew Williams
in the Monmouthshire, Wales, Anglican Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1551-1994
Name: George Andrew Williams
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: 1873
Marriage Date: 10 Feb 1898
Marriage Place: Llangattock Juxta Caerleon, Monmouthshire, Wales
Father: : Thomas Williams , labourer 99%)
Meredith Sophia Monmouth 11a 57
Williams Thomas Monmouth 11a 57




Other Williams/Meredith births:

WILLIAMS, AMY EVANGELINE MEREDITH
GRO Reference: 1870 M Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 27

but her father was David John Williams, per her marriage in 1894 to Richard John Goode.

Can't trace the next two with any accuracy, so don't know if same family or not:

WILLIAMS, ANN MEREDITH
GRO Reference: 1862 S Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 44

WILLIAMS, ELIZABETH ANN MEREDITH
GRO Reference: 1865 S Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 33

Look for info on freebmd and on the GRO site

The 1881 census intrigues me... they live next door to Thomas and Sophia Williams who I originally had down for being the parents.. I can't find the evidence right now but I think Sophia Williams was a Powell and her mother was Mary Powell...

I'm going along with the John and Louisa idea. Mary Ann and Arthur are both J&L and I'm wondering if the baptism for Emma (William and Louisa) might be an error on part of the vicar...Too many Williams!! Mary, Emma and Arthur in the 1881 census at Skenfrith intrigues me. I have ordered a marriage cert' for Mary Ann and James Price to see what that reveals..

1861

Name: Louisa Powell
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas Powell
Mother's Name: Mary Powell
Gender: Female
Where born: Lantilio Crossenny, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Llantillio Crossenny
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration District: Monmouth
Sub-registration District: Dingestow
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Household Schedule Number: 36
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3986
Folio: 48
Page Number: 7
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Powell 58
Mary Powell 48
Louisa Powell 18

Emma's marriage:

Emma Williams
in the Monmouthshire, Wales, Anglican Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1551-1994
Name: Emma Williams
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: Full age
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 9 Apr 1895
Marriage Place: Llantilio Crossenny, Monmouthshire, Wales
Father: John Williams
Spouse: Thomas Baylis
Page number: 97


She's on 1901 and 1911 censuses, born Skenfrith.

Mary Williams
in the 1881 Wales Census
Name: Mary Williams
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Skenfrith, Monmouth, Wales
Civil Parish: Skenfrith
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: Bryngerth
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Housekeeper
Registration District: Monmouth
Sub registration district: Dingestow
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors:
Piece: 5226
Folio: 103
Page Number: 7
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Williams 17
Emma Williams 10
Arthur Williams 4
Mary Powel 68 - relative


EDIT:
Ah, already posted by WS.

This one's baptism already mentioned by ErikaH:

WILLIAMS, ARTHUR mmn POWELL
GRO Reference: 1876 D Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 32


Arthur Williams
in the 1891 Wales Census
Name: Arthur Williams
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Skenfrith, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Llangattock Vibon Avel
Ecclesiastical parish: Llangattock Vibon Avel
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration District: Monmouth
Sub registration district: Dingestow
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Neighbors:
Piece: 4342
Folio: 83
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
William Long 67
Margerat Long 24
Catherine Long 22
Laura Long 20
William Long 18
Arthur Williams 14

Another child ??

WILLIAMS, MARY ELLEN mmn POWELL
GRO Reference: 1873 S Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 39

EDIT:
No, not that one:

Mary Ellen Williams
in the Monmouthshire, Wales, Anglican Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1551-1994
Name: Mary Ellen Williams
Baptism Age: 0
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 1873
Baptism Date: 26 Sep 1873
Baptism Place: Monmouth, Overmonmow St Thomas, Monmouthshire, Wales
Father: William Williams, bright smith
Mother: Mary Williams
Page number: 65

Posting just in case she was the daughter of John Williams and Louisa Powell, as you mention;

Mary Ann Williams
in the Monmouthshire, Wales, Anglican Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1551-1994
Name: Mary Ann Williams
Baptism Age: 0
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 1863
Baptism Date: 20 Jun 1863
Baptism Place: Skenfrith, Monmouthshire, Wales
Father: John Williams, albourer
Mother: Louisa Williams
Page number: 10

Address: Little Brook [something unreadable ]


John & Louisa may have also had a son James, born before their marriage - if this is the same couple:

James Williams
in the Monmouthshire, Wales, Anglican Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1551-1994
Name: James Williams
Baptism Age: 0
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 1861
Baptism Date: 2 Apr 1861
Baptism Place: Monmouth, St Mary, Monmouthshire, Wales
Father: John Williams, brewer
Mother: Louisa Williams
Page number: 122

Address: Lodging {House? ],Monmouth


WILLIAMS, JAMES mmn POWELL
GRO Reference: 1861 J Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 35

WILLIAMS, MARY ANN mmn POWELL
GRO Reference: 1863 S Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 31


Marriages Sep 1861 (>99%)
Powell Louisa Monmouth 11a 45
WILLIAMS John Monmouth 11a 45


However, I don't see John & Louisa in 1871, with or without children.


Other Williams/Powell births:

WILLIAMS, EMMA mmn POWELL
GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 38

That's the one ErikaH mentioned:

Emma Williams
in the Monmouthshire, Wales, Anglican Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1551-1994
Name: Emma Williams
Baptism Age: 0
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 1870
Baptism Date: 17 Sep 1870
Baptism Place: Skenfrith, Monmouthshire, Wales
Father: William Williams, labourer
Mother: Louisa Williams
Page number: 22
Address: Skenfrith


WILLIAMS, SARAH mmn POWELL
GRO Reference: 1867 J Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 39

Sarah Williams
in the Monmouthshire, Wales, Anglican Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1551-1994
Name: Sarah Williams
Baptism Age: 0
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 1867
Baptism Date: 13 Jun 1867
Baptism Place: Skenfrith, Monmouthshire, Wales
Father: John Williams, labourer
Mother: Louisa Williams
Page number: 16
Address: The Glorio [??], Skenfrith


Sarah Williams
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Sarah Williams
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relationship to Head: Daughter
Father: John Williams
Mother: Louisa Williams
Gender: Female
Where born: Skenfrith, Monmouth, Wales
Civil Parish: Little Dewchurch
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England
Street Address: Haltwint
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration District: Hereford
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Piece: 2588
Folio: 20
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
John Williams 45 - agricultural labourer, Holm Lacy, Hereford
Louisa Williams 38 - Llantilio Crosseny, Mon.
Sarah Williams 12

Marriages Sep 1861 (>99%)
Powell Louisa Monmouth 11a 45
WILLIAMS John Monmouth 11a 45

WILLIAMS, ARTHUR POWELL
GRO Reference: 1876 D Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 32

WILLIAMS, EMMA POWELL
GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 38


WILLIAMS, MARY ANN POWELL
GRO Reference: 1863 S Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 31

'Head' against Mary's name on the census was clearly an error

I will, thank you.

If you wish to know who Mary said her father was, get a copy of her marriage cert

There is a baptism in Skenfrith of an Emma Williams 17 Sep 1870 - parents William and Louisa, and one for Arthur 19 Sep 1876 -same parents.

In the 1881 census on the previous page, the house next door is; Thomas Williams - Head, Sophia his wife plus 4 children. Although Mary is recorded as head at age 17 I'm hard pressed to believe Emma age 10 is her daughter...

It's probably coincidence but you'll note on the 1891 census a domestic servant, Emma Williams 19

Well the 2 Vine Tree Inn records are what I believe to be correct... The record I've seen for '81 is in Skenfrith
Name
Mary PowelAge68
Mary WilliamsAge17
Emma WilliamsAge10
Arthur WilliamsAge4

Mary is named head of household. Mary Powell is a relative. If Sophia Williams proved to be Mary Ann's mother, Mary Powell would be the grandmother I believe.