Find Ancestors

Thanks :-)

Link already posted by ErikaH:

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

You have to register, but it's free to search.
Invaluable!

Also when searching for a death, it gives the age at death.


The main drawback, when searching for a birth (or death) , is that you must enter a surname.
So you can't search for a child's birth if you only know the first name, or only know the mmn.

Other drawbacks include the fact that a search will give you a maximum of 5 pages of results, so if searching for the birth or death of someone with a common name, and you don't know exactly where the event occurred, the one you want might not be in those 5 pages.

You can't specify a whole county to search in, as you can on FreeBMD. If you don't know the specific reg district within a county, you have to trawl through up to 5 pages of results from the whole of England/Wales.

Often it's easier to do a more general search on FreeBMD first, then double-check any likely-looking result on GRO.

Out of interest, which site shows mms/mmn ? I mostly use freebmd.

Thanks. It's frustrating ! I was wondering if she was registered in one name and then they changed their mind when she was baptised ! Clearly not. So unless anything else turns up I can only rely on the evidence before me; The baptism and census references.

Yes, of course you're right about the dates - I had noticed that, but then forgot again!

In that case, there's no birth record as Richardson with first name Rose or similar.

(apart from a Rosa Grace Richardson, registered in Nantwich, Cheshire, in1852, but died in Caernarvon in 1855.)

And none as Richardson in 1852, with any first name and with mms (or even mmn) Langstone.


MMS = mother's maiden surname.
MMN = mother's maiden name.

MMS is the Scottish version of MMN

Illegitimacy is indicated by the absence of that info on the GRO record

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

The GRO ref for Rosa Richardson is 1953, the baptism for the child with Thos and Caroline Richardson is Nov 52 with birth given as Feb 52.

What does mms ? What indicates an illegitimate child ? Sorry, I'm not familiar with these terms, I assume there is now a way of seeing the mother's surname pre 1911 ?

But there's no BIRTH record unless the illegitimate one is her.


Maybe she was the daughter of some relative of Thomas, and he and Caroline agreed to bring her up, so had her baptised as their own child.
But that's only an unfounded guess.
That's why I would buy the birth cert to see who the mother of the illegitimate child was - if it were my search.

Might turn out to be a completely unrelated child, of course - it's a gamble. Only you can decide if it's worth the cost.

That baptism was posted on here by ArgyllGran

I believe I have found a record of her baptism. Christchurch, Marylebone. Rosina Anna Richardson, Nov '52. Parents Thomas and Caroline. On the 1861 census I think her birth place says Marylebone. Poor writing. Hannah's appears to be St Pancras. On the 1871 census they both state St Pancras. I'm convinced it's the person I'm looking for.

Re "NK" in 1911, I agree with Erika that it's "not known"..

Info on censuses depends on what the informant knew, or thought they knew.

Frederick Siggs on the same record also has NK for his birthplace, though he was born in Fulham:

SIGGS, FREDERICK JOSEPH mms HOBBS
GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 264

Ah, okay. Ta.

And IF she is the daughter of Thomas and Caroline, it's strange there's apparently no birth record for her.

Or IF she's the illegitimate birth, why did Thomas & Caroline bring her up as their daughter?
If it were my search, I would be tempted to buy the birth cert to see who her mother was.

Surely, 'N K' on 1911 means 'Not known'

Unfortunately, if, as it seems, Rosa din't marry, you may never know who her father was

I'll scrap the 'nurse child' record, I think this is probably correct. Great work, thank you !

That looks like it could be the family ! No marriage to found I don't think. Rose and Hannah were domestic servants in the household of Henry Williams (1871 census) In 1881 Rose was using his surname and he had another family with her....

The 1881 you mention:

Risina Williams
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Risina Williams
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: Henry Williams
Gender: Female
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Islington
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 1 Southampton Ter
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration District: Islington
Sub registration district: Islington West
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Neighbors:
Piece: 232
Folio: 58
Page Number: 37
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Williams 50
Risina Williams 30
Henry Williams 6
Annie Williams 2

I can't see any marriage for them.


WILLIAMS, ANNIE ROSETTA mms RICHARDSON
GRO Reference: 1878 D Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 277


WILLIAMS, HENRY THOMAS mms RICHARDSON
GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 302

Rosina Anna Richardson
in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1917
Name: Rosina Anna Richardson
Gender: Female
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 12 Nov 1852
Baptism Place: St Marylebone Christ Church, Westminster, England
Father: Thomas Richardson
Mother: Caroline Richardson
Register Type: Parish Registers


The illegitimate birth already posted is still the only likely one I can see.
Can't see one witih mms Langstone or similar.
(Assuming Thomas and Caroline are her parents.)

Marriages Sep 1843 (>99%)
LANGSTONE Caroline Uxbridge 3 341
RICHARDSON Thomas Uxbridge 3 341