Find Ancestors

Thanks again ... love the name ditto!!!

Gertrude Moore
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Gertrude Moore
Age in 1911: 59
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: South Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 71 Greame Street Moss Side Manchester
Marital status: Widowed
Registration District: Chorlton
Registration District Number: 464
Sub-registration District: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 51
Piece: 23916
Household Members:
Name Age
Gertrude Moore 59 - widow
Gertrude Elizabeth Ditts 38 - single
Hugh Martin Dunn 38 - boarder


The daughter's name is Moore, but the transcriber has thought that the word "ditto" (writtten on the form) was her name.



Marriages Sep 1924 (>99%)
DUNN Hugh M Moore Chorlton 8c 2038
Moore Gertrude E D Dunn Chorlton 8c 2038


Deaths Jun 1957 (>99%)
DUNN Gertrude E 84 Manchester 10e 24

Deaths Dec 1943 (>99%)
Dunn Hugh M 70 Manchester 8d 17

Thanks so much for this. I just couldn’t seem to find them.

And in 1891:

Gertrude Morre
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Gertrude Morre
Gender: Female
Age: 38
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1853
Child: Elizabeth Morre
Beatrice Morre
Henry Alf Morre
Birth Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Moss Side
Ecclesiastical parish: St Edmund
Residence Place: Moss Side, Lancashire, England
Registration District: Chorlton
Sub registration district: Hulme
ED, Institution or Vessel: 77
Neighbors:
Piece: 3200
Folio: 126
Household Members:
Name Age
Gertrude Morre 38 - widow
Elizabeth Morre 18
Beatrice Morre 16
Henry Alf Morre 14
John Gibbs 27 - boarder


So the 1886 death you found for Henry will be correct.

Gertrude and daughter in 1901:

Gertrude Moore
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Gertrude Moore
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Moss Side
Ecclesiastical parish: Whalley Range St Edmund
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:
Registration District: Chorlton
Sub-registration District: Hulme
ED, institution, or vessel: 69
Neighbors:
Piece: 3709
Folio: 142
Page Number: 8
Household Schedule Number: 45
Household Members:
Name Age
Gertrude Moore 49 - widow
Gertrude E D Moore 28
Hugh M Dunn 28 - boarder

1881 for our reference:

Henry S. Moore
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Henry S. Moore
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Gertrude Moore
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Moss Side
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 71 Granville St
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Sols Clerk
Registration District: Chorlton
ED, institution, or vessel: 78
Neighbors:
Piece: 3939
Folio: 89
Page Number: 33
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry S. Moore 35
Gertrude Moore 29
Gertrude E. Moore 8
Beatrice Moore 6
Henry A. Moore 2


MOORE, BEATRICE mmn DONALDSON
GRO Reference: 1874 S Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 08C Page 848

MOORE, GERTRUDE ELIZABETH DUCKER mmn DONALDSON
GRO Reference: 1873 M Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 321

MOORE, HENRY ALFRED mmn DONALDSON
GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 08C Page 907

??

Gertrude Moore
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Gertrude Moore
Death Age: 86
Birth Date: abt 1850
Registration Date: Jul 1936
[Aug 1936]
[Sep 1936]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District: South Manchester
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 260

Erika kindly posted a marriage for Gertrude Donaldson to Henry Samuel Moore. I was trying to find what happened to her but can't find them after 1881. There is a Gertrude Moore, widow, living in Manchester in 1911 but that's all I can find and there's a death for a Henry Samuel Moore in 1886 in Chorlton.

Oh yes, sorry - my arithmetic got muddled up.

I would be happy to view the image on ScotlandsPeople but I don't think it's the right one. Margaret was born about 1816 and the deaths on ScotlandsPeople don't seem to match up with that birth year. It looks like we might have hit the end of the road!!

If you feel it's worth it to you, you can view the image of the original 1855 death cert on ScotlandsPeople, for full details, to see if it's the right one or not.

www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

It will cost you 6 credits to view, totalling £1.50.
If you haven't already done so, register (free) on the site, and buy the minimum 30 credits for £7.50.

The bigamy scenario seems the most plausible - especially as the second 'marriage' was in a Register Office

I doubt that Eliza was a knowing party to the bigamous 'marriage', but having had a number of children by the man, she was willing to legalise their union by going through a 're-marriage' Probably the least of several possible evils, and at least their children were legitimised

Yes, I had wondered that, especially if the 1855 death is the correct one. He woudn't be in a position to marry Eliza properly at the time, but she obviously waited for him.

Maybe - who knows?!

I agree, it’s so frustrating when you can’t solve these puzzles.
Earlier in this thread I think it was Erika mentioned he was sentenced to 5 years in prison in 1855, making it 1860 when he got out ... do you think there’s any connection to the 1860 marriage? Just a thought.

We could speculate endlessly - but I expect it'll just be one of those tantalising things that you'll never know the answer to!

Eliza wasn't necessarily aware that the first marriage was bigamous, but must have known by the time of the second one - she calls herself a spinster both times.

I missed that she was calling herself widowed in 1851, so does look a strong possibility that he married Eliza bigamously. Eliza must've been in on it though or surely she wouldn't have gone through the 1860 marriage. What could've been the reason - guilty conscience or did they catch up with him?

IF the 1851 posted by RG for Margaret, and IF the 1833 marriage mentioned are the correct ones, then it looks as if John and Margaret had separated (she's calling herself widowed in 1851).

My guess would be that he "married" Eliza in 1847 bigamously, as Margaret was still alive.
Then he married Eliza legally in 1860, presumably after Margaret's death. He's calling himself a widower in 1860.


IF that's the case, and IF Margaret was still calling herself Donaldson, then this MIGHT be her death - though it's a long shot:

DONALDSON
MARGARET
60
1855
594/ 89
Girvan

Thanks Erika.
I've been going back over all the information found. I've been unable to find a death for Margaret but as rootgatherer showed in the 1851 census it looks as though she was very much alive, so maybe John Binning did do a runner to Liverpool and met up with Eliza Fell. I can't for the life of me figure out why he would marry her twice though.

Father not 'deceased' - described as a 'Gentleman"

Name: Gertrude Donaldson
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 23
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1849
Marriage Date: 2 Mar 1872
Father: John Binning Donaldson
Spouse: Henry Samuel Moore

No doubt posted before, but shows that Eliza was Gertrude Bean Fell's sister

Name: Eliza Donaldson
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John Donaldson
Gender: Female
Where born: Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: West Derby
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration District: West Derby
Sub-registration District: West Derby
ED, institution, or vessel: 1c
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 22
Piece: 2192
Folio: 83
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
John Donaldson 29
Eliza Donaldson 25
Eliza A Donaldson 3
Jessie Donaldson 2
Gertrude Donaldson 7 Mo
Mary I Burns 24


Birthplace and children the same (plus James) in 1861 - after the second marriage


First name(s) Eliza
Last name Fell
Gender Female
Birth year -
Birth place -
Baptism year 1826
Baptism date 15 Jan 1826
Place Nottingham
County Nottinghamshire
Country England
Father's first name(s) William
Father's last name Fell
Mother's first name(s) Ann