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I did at one point think that Mary was born Mary Roberts an illegitimate child and rather than have the Father left blank on the Marriage Register gave her adopted father's name of William Shaw. However, I think William Shaw married Mary Lightfoot and there is a Mary Shaw birth registered in Runcorn 1839 with MMN Lightfoot.

Mary lightfoot born 17/1/1808 baptised All Saints Runcorn 7/2/1808 by Robert and Nancy lightfoot.

Mary and William Shaw stone mason married 14/12/1830

Maryb

Record Transcription:
England Marriages 1538-1973


Mary Lightfoot

First name(s) Mary
Last name Lightfoot
Name note -
Marriage year 1830
Marriage date 14 Dec 1830
Marriage place Manchester
Spouse's first name(s) William
Spouse's last name Shaw
Spouse's age -
County Lancashire
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain

Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1846 to 1850
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Year Sub-District Registers At Reference
SHAW John LIGHTFOOT 1848 Runcorn Halton RUN/9/85

In your opening post about Mary 1860, Carole, you said "If I can find a birth record I will order it.".

Please let us know what it says - it will be fascinating to know!

Oh people thank you so much for all this information. I apologise, I didn’t realise it had gone into extra pages when I checked yesterday.
There is so much now for me to digest.
Yes I will order the birth record when I work out which one.
And I will post the information.
Many thanks, Carole

Copying it again here:

ROBERTS, MARY mms SHAW
GRO Reference: 1859 S Quarter in CONGLETON Volume 08A Page 249

Thanks ArgyllGran. I have been trying to get onto the GRO website to order it today, with no luck. I will try again tomorrow.

I have just managed to order the birth record for Mary Roberts, and it is due on12 October by email.

I have received the birth record. I don’t know how to attach it to here, so I will transcribe.
Date of birth 24th June 1859 Mill Street, Congleton.
Girl named Mary.
Father Robert Roberts (ship builder’s clerk)
Mother Mary Roberts formerly Shaw.
Informant Mary Roberts mother of Bridgewater Street, Runcorn, on 9 July 1859.

Thanks everyone. It is late at night here in Aus, so I will check back in the morning.

Hmmm - I had wondered if perhaps Mary called herself Roberts, because she was Robert's - although not married to him when the children were born.

However, if she was telling the truth about the father's occupation when registering young Mary's birth, it seems that Robert Roberts is not an alias for Robert Whiteway after all.

Unfortunately, there are hundreds of Robert Roberts living in the Cheshire/Liverpool area in 1861 and 1871.

There's even one at 59 Spencer Street in 1861 - but he's a builder, and married.

Hi ArgyllGran. I wondered about the Roberts too.
But on the 1861 census Robert C Whiteway occupation is Ship Builder as well as Stone Mason ( I think)
I really must go to sleep but this has me interested now ??.

Guess who was living at Bridgewater Street, Runcorn in 1861 Census? William & Mary Shaw, Mary's parents!

Record Transcription:
1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Bridgewater Street, Runcorn, Cheshire, England

We've found the following potential record matches for the same person in other record sets
William Shaw
Census Record
Cheshire, England
Year of census: 1851
Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Shaw Head Married Male 55 1806 Master Mason Employing 2 Men And 1 Boy Northwich, Cheshire, England
Mary Shaw Wife Married Female 53 1808 - Runcorn, Cheshire, England
John Shaw Son - Male 12 1849 Scholar Runcorn, Cheshire, England

1851 Census - although already posted the address was omitted

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Bridgewater Street, Runcorn, Cheshire, England


Mary Shaw
Census Record
Cheshire, England
Year of census: 1841
Mary Shaw
Census Record
Staffordshire, England
Year of census: 1861
Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Shaw Head Married Male 45 1806 Stonemason Northwich, Cheshire, England
Mary Shaw Wife Married Female 43 1808 - Runcorn, Cheshire, England
Thomas Shaw Son Unmarried Male 17 1834 Stonemason Runcorn, Cheshire, England
Elizabeth Shaw Daughter Unmarried Female 14 1837 Milliner Dressmaker Runcorn, Cheshire, England
Mary Shaw Daughter Unmarried Female 12 1839 At Home Runcorn, Cheshire, England
John Shaw Son Unmarried Male 2 1849 At Home Runcorn, Cheshire, England

1851 and 1861 - Robert Whiteway was a stone merchant and ship builder.
1871 - he was a merchant and JP.

If he was aka Robert Roberts, either he was boasting on the censuses and was really just a shipbuilder's clerk, or else Mary made him sound less than he was on the birth cert.

Thanks everyone.
On the marriage record of Robert C Whiteway and Mary Shaw, their fathers’ occupations are noted as Philip Whiteway stone merchant, and William Shaw Quarry proprietor. In records in the early days the stone / quarry theme seems to pop up regularly.
I assume it is now safe for me to run with this line and put them in my tree.
There certainly are some interesting unanswered questions or skeletons though.
I will sit quietly later today and go through it all again.

Thanks so much for your help. Much appreciated.
Take care, I am assuming you are in UK.

Hi
Carole Mac

why not buy this cert i know its more expense but its the only cert that has shaw in the persons name
but why has robert c whiteway changed his name to roberts ?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Sep 1861 (>99%)
ROBERTS Frederick Shaw W Derby 8b 312

safc, if only we knew why Robert Whiteway has used Roberts. Maybe it is Mary Roberts Shaw Whiteway Bryan who has just used it? Maybe the children were "Robert's" children. Maybe they were protecting his name?
There is quite an age difference, 16 years (18 and 34) between Mary and Robert, I saw somewhere.
Maybe she was the boss's daughter?
As I said I need to slowly go through all my info now one step at a time.
I might try your suggestion of ordering the next cert.
Thank you.

Carole, do you know where and when the daughter, Mary MacMurray nee Roberts/Whiteway died? I'm just wondering whether on the Death Certificate or Burial Headstone there maybe a birth date?

Her death:

Mary C McMurray
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Mary C McMurray
Death Age: 59
Birth Date: abt 1860
Registration Date:
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Chester
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 673



Mary Cheshyre McMurray
in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995
Name: Mary Cheshyre McMurray
Death Date: 9 Jan 1919
Death Place: Cheshire, England
Probate Date: 2 May 1919
Probate Registry: Cheshire

MCMURRAY, Mary Cheshyre of 6 Saughall Road, Chester, widow, died 9 January 1919.
Administration Chester, 2 May, to Ethel McMurray, spinster. Effects: £135 5s 6d.



Nothing online gives her exact DOB, but 1911 says her age was 51; 1901 says 41; 1891 says 31; 1881 says 21; 1871 says 11, and 1861 says 1 - so all agree on 1859-60.