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Thomas Finch

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Mumbles

Mumbles Report 19 Aug 2020 21:06

I think that maybe you are right, it will be just another one that got away: It is such a usual name:
I want to thank you all for searching for me and for all the trouble that you took on my behalf:
I will try to follow up on the death of that Mary Finch though as that looks good to me:
Once again many thanks indeed:

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 Aug 2020 20:47

In that case, the Thomas Finch in the 1841, 1851 and 1961 censuses in Upper Hardres can't be the right one.

Therefore, I take it that the baptism is the only record you have of your Thomas.

Perhaps he died in childhood (or at least before 1841) and the burial record has not survived.

Mumbles

Mumbles Report 19 Aug 2020 19:18

Yes the half siblings are Gabriels & Susannah's children they are Gabriel B1816 Susanna B 1818 and George Bryney Finch B 1823: Susannah was previously married to a James Vallins in 1811 he died before 1815 when she married again it shows her as being Follings not Vallins when she married Gabriel, but that is due to her being illiterate and some one else writing what they thought she said :She had one child by James Vallins he was Henry, and lucky for me she kept his surname when she married again: Henry is my 2 x Grt grandfather and James and Susannah are my 3 x Grt Grandparents: If you look on the 1841 census you will see that living next door to Gabriel and Susannah is Henry Vallins: He also has one of his half siblings living with him:
I have seen both him and his seven half siblings with there birth dates written in the family bible:
As far as the 1841 census goes for Thomas I am not at all sure that the one fond is correct it just happens to be the same as I found:
Other people who have Thomas on their tree also have only what I have just a birth, none of them have him as dying or any other details:
The possible burial for the mother Mary does how ever look good as she would have died before 1815:
The other finch's that you have found are correct Mary, Catherine and William were all born in Woolwich in 1802, 04 and 05 Then came Thomas and James Born in 1807 and 1810:

LondonBelle

LondonBelle Report 19 Aug 2020 18:57

I was just wondering with many people being illiterate at that time and unable to tell whether things were spelt correctly together with a local accent that 'Tye' could have been written as 'Teay' by the Clerk...just a thought.

Mumbles

Mumbles Report 19 Aug 2020 18:38

Yes the half siblings are Gabriel and Susannah's children and Susannah's previous marriage was to a James Vallins so her name was Vallins when she married Gabriel not Follings, but being illiterate this is where mistakes come from: The three half siblings are Gabriel B1816 Susanna B1818 and George Bryney Finch B1823 all went to USA and died in Grundy Illinois:
As to the three other children Mary, Catherine and William that is correct they were born in Woolwich then Thomas and his brother James born in 1810 were born in Chatham: I have seen the baptisms on line at "City Ark" web site:
I am not sure that the 1841 census is the correct one I said that was the one that I also found and might be correct:
The query on if Mary's name could be Tye, I don't know but when I checked the marriage on "City Ark" the spelling looked like Teay but looking at the Banns it looked like Tiay:

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 Aug 2020 18:01

Are Gabriel and Susannah's children listed in 1841 the half-siblings you mentioned as having gone to the USA?

If not, who are the half-siblings? Perhaps we can work back to Thomas that way.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 Aug 2020 17:47

If that's the right Gabriel in 1841 above, these will be the baptisms of three of the four children mentioned by the Ancestry member.

I don't see a fourth in Woolwich, so MAYBE Thomas is the fourth ???
Chatham's quite a distance from Woolwich, but both are dockyard areas:

Catharine Finch
in the London, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812
Name: Catharine Finch
Gender: Female
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 13 Jan 1804
Baptism Place: St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich, Greenwich, Kent, England
Father: Gabriel Finch
Mother: Mary Finch
Register Type: Parish Register


William Finch
in the London, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812
Name: William Finch
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 23 Jun 1805
Baptism Place: St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich, Greenwich, Kent, England
Father: Gabriel Finch
Mother: Mary Finch
Register Type: Parish Register

Mary Finch
in the London, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812
Name: Mary Finch
Gender: Female
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 19 Dec 1802
Baptism Place: St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich, Greenwich, Kent, England
Father: Gabriel Finch
Mother: Mary Finch
Register Type: Parish Register


LondonBelle

LondonBelle Report 19 Aug 2020 17:40

Could Mary's surname be 'Tye' rather than 'Teay'?

First name(s) Mary
Last name Tye
Baptism year 1783
Baptism date 08 Jun 1783
Place Chatham, St Mary
Father's first name(s) William
Mother's first name(s) Susanna
County Kent
Country England
Archive Medway Archives

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 Aug 2020 17:40

This looks like the Gabriel who died in 1855 (death posted by ErikaH) :

Gabriel Fench
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Gabriel Fench
[Gabrial Finch]
[Gabriel Finch]
Age: 70
Estimated birth year: abt 1771
[1770]
Gender: Male
Where born: Kent, England
[SUNDRIDGE, near Sevenoaks, Kent, England]
Civil Parish: Halstead <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hundred: Codsheath
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
View image
Registration district: Sevenoaks
Sub-registration district: Shoreham
Neighbors:
Piece: 483
Book: 4
Folio: 4
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
Gabriel Fench 70
Susannah Fench 50
George Fench 15
John Fench 15
Frederick Fench 13
Mary Fench 10


An Ancestry member has added this comment:

Almost certainly the Gabriel Finch who left the Royal Artillery at WOOLWICH 30 Sep 1814 aged 44 after 20 years service (National Archives, 2 documents). Wife Mary mother of 3 children bap WOOLWICH 1802/5 dead by then as he m. Susanna Follings at Lee, Kent 16 Jul 1815 (IGI) and began 2nd family.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 Aug 2020 17:32

Here's the Upper Hardres man in 1851:

Thomas Finch
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Thomas Finch
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1801
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Upper Hardres, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Upper Hardres
Ecclesiastical parish: Canterbury
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration district: Bridge
Sub-registration district: Chartham
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 2
Piece: 1623
Folio: 82
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Whitnall 49
Thomas Finch 50 - carpenter

LondonBelle

LondonBelle Report 19 Aug 2020 17:30

Possible burial for Mary?

First name(s) Mary
Last name Finch
Birth year 1781
Burial year 1813
Age at death 32
Burial date 04 Oct 1813
Place Gillingham, St Mary Magdalene
Residence Brompton
County Kent
Country England
Archive Medway Archives

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 Aug 2020 17:29

Please can you clarify, Mumbles?

How did you work back to Thomas?

Is the 1841 census posted by ErikaH the one you think is correct?

If so, how do you know that he's the same Thomas as the one born in Chatham (about 30miles away) ?

If the man in 1861 is the one in1841, then he was born in Upper Hardres, not Chatham.

Mumbles

Mumbles Report 19 Aug 2020 17:20

Yes LondonBelle I do have his Army pension records: I am OK with the Father Gabriel: Thank you
Maybe the 1861 census is the same person : It does say birth about 1804, but he is a Carpenter:

malyon

malyon Report 19 Aug 2020 17:17

Thomas Finch
England and Wales Census, 1841
Name:
Thomas Finch
Event Type:
Census
Event Date:
1841
Event Place:
Deptford St Paul, Kent, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original):
St Paul Deptford, Kent, England
County:
Kent
Parish:
St Paul Deptford
Registration District:
Greenwich
Residence Note:
New King Street
Gender:
Male
Age:
30
Age (Original):
30
Birth Year (Estimated):
1807-1811
Birthplace:
Kent
Page Number:
24
Registration Number:
HO107
Piece/Folio:
488/16
Affiliate Record Type:
Institution
Affiliate Image Identifier:
GBC/1841/0488/0465&parentid=GBC/1841/0014231164
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Mathew* Finch Male 70 Kent
Mathew Sanders Finch Male 35 Kent
Thomas Finch Male 30 Kent
Ann Rolt Female 60 Kent
Mary Ann Lepard Female 38 Kent
Eliza Coltar Female 21 Kent
Elizebth Stapleton Female 25 Kent

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 Aug 2020 17:14

Slightly different age again, but a possible death of the man in 1841 and 1861 censuses:

Deaths Mar 1871 (>99%)
Finch Thomas 69 Bridge 2a 451

Upper Hardres was in Bridge reg district

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 Aug 2020 17:04

?? If the 1841 census posted by ErikaH is the one you think is correct, Mumbles, this looks like him in 1861:

Thomas Finch
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Thomas Finch
Age: 57
Estimated birth year: 1804
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Upper Hardres, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Upper Hardres
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: Bridge
Sub-registration district: Chartham
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 67
Piece: 517
Folio: 71
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Fenwick 59
William Fenwick 39
John Hawkes 21
George Southon 16
Henry Deal 24
William Culvery 40
Thomas Finch 57 - carpenter, single


But Chartham (near Canterbury) is not Chatham. And Gillingham isn't near Chartham, though only a couple of miles from Chatham.

LondonBelle

LondonBelle Report 19 Aug 2020 17:02

I know you are looking for info on Thomas and his Mother, Mary but have you got the actual date of Gabriel's death ie 1 May 1855 aged 84? ....this is form his Army Pension Record.

Mumbles

Mumbles Report 19 Aug 2020 16:28

Yes I have the death of Gabriel Finch ErikaH that is Thomas father Thank you for that:
I have all the details on his father, I am having trouble with the Mother and Thomas his self

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 19 Aug 2020 16:18

First name(s) Gabriel
Last name Finch
Birth year 1771
Burial year 1855
Age at death 84
Burial date 06 May 1855
Place Halstead, St Margaret
Residence Halstead
Country England
Archive Kent History & Library Centre
Archive reference P166/1/E/1
Register type Burials
Year range 1813-1929

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 19 Aug 2020 16:10

???

Name: Thomas Finch........................Carpenter
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1806
Gender: Male
Where born: Kent, England
Civil Parish: Upper Hardres
Hundred: Bridge and Petham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Bridge
Sub-registration district: Chartham
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 467
Book: 5
Folio: 5
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Stephen Whitnall 65
Mary Whitnall 70
William Whitnall 45
Jane Whitnall 60
Thomas Finch 35