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Oh good to get that sorted Rose, so thanks again. Lyn.

Catherine Preston was William Thomas Brentnall's mother, not his wife/partner.

She was born Catherine Kingsland, and married Charles Brentnall (William's father).
After Charles's death, she married William Henry Preston.

Lyn,

Catherine Greensill did not marry a Preston. Catherine Kingsland did.

Rose

ArgllGran - All printed out now and really appreciated your assistance, even though I forgot to mention I use Mac computer.
Certainly seems Catherine Annie Greensill married Douglas but not Brentnall.and may well have married William Henry Preston.

Lyn.

Many of us who post on these boards are elderly, Lyn!

To print out the whole of this thread -

Put at least 9 sheets of paper into your printer.

Now look at the top right corner of your screen. You'll see either a row of three dots, or else a stack of three little bars, depending on whether you're using Microsoft or Firefox. Other systems will have something similar.

Left click on that, and somewhere in the drop-down list you'll see "Print".
Click on that.

Now you're seeing the print preview screen.

If you're using Firefox, set the scale to 90% . If it's at 100% or more, it won't all fit on the page when it's printed, and bits will be missing.
Then click "Print" at the top left of the screen.
Then select the page range you want to print (either "All" - or 1-8 if the scale is 90%), and click "Print".
There are 9 pages when the scale is 90%, but the 9th doesn't have anything useful on it.

If you're using Microsoft Edge, use the "Shrink to fit" setting, or else 75% which will give a more easily readable printout.
Then click "Print"


That method prints the pages just as they look on GR.

The alternative method is to copy/paste individual bits of info to a word processing document, but that's more fiddly to describe to you.

Agree Katherine Greensill (married name Douglas) was Frank Brentnall's mother.
Recall my grandfather telling me he met his half brother Frank during the war.
Catherine/Catharine/Katherine....all the same person.

I have many boxes of paperwork collected over about 55 years and am endeavouring to sort same out. Most grateful ArgyllGran for all your help and want to print it out!

L

Help please....how do I print out all the informatiion re this search? Am elderly and cannot remember. Thanks, Lyn.

As far as documentation goes, we have no proof that Katherine/Catherine Annie Greensill is the same Catherine/Katherine who was Frank Brentnall's mother.

Frank's birth cert might give more information.
I know the transcription says his mother's maiden name was Douglas.
If that's true then she wasn't Katherine Greensill, but as already said, it may be a mistake or misunderstanding.
And (also already said) there's no birth of a Katherine/Catherine Douglas in Staffordshire 1850-1860.

You say:

"I have VIOLET ANNIE BRENTNALLborn April 1894, and note she died in June 1894. Her parents listed as William Thomas Brentnall and Catherine Annie ? "

I take it you're assuming she is the child born illegitimately as Violet Annetta Douglas?
Only her birth cert will give you proof of who her mother was .

Where are you finding that info? Is it definite family knowledge, or just taken from a stranger's tree, which should always be taken with a large pinch of salt?


Personally, I think Katherine Greensill was indeed Frank Brentnall's mother - but proving it is another matter!


If it were my tree, I would be buying a copy of the 1901 death cert to see the details, to verify or rule out that death, rather than just guessing.

Yes, if you look at the censuses you'll see that Charles and William Brentnall (mms Kingsland) were brothers .

Here they are, with their mother and grandmother in 1871:

Charles Brentnall
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Charles Brentnall
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: 1869
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: W'hampton Staffordshire England
Civil Parish: Aston
Town: Deritend
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Deritend
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 156
Piece: 3134
Folio: 134
Page Number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
Rachael Kingsland 49
Catherine Brentnall 24 - married, born in Mere, Wiltshire.
William Brentnall 4
Charles Brentnall 2

[and several boarders]

Their parents' marriage:

Catherine Kingsland
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Catherine Kingsland
Registration Year: 1866
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Aston
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 353
Records on Page:
Name
Charles Brentnall
Catherine Kingsland

Possibly the death of their father:

Deaths Jun 1870 (>99%)
Brentnall Charles 22 Burton 6b 226


Their mother remarried in 1876:

Marriages Mar 1876 (>99%)
BRENTNALL Catherine Birmingham 6d 99
Preston William Henry Birmingham 6d 99


Catherine Preston
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Catherine Preston
Age: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: William H. Preston
Gender: Female
Where born: Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: Sedgley
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: 36 Bloomfield Rd Kings Arms
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Manageress (...)
Registration district: Dudley
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors:
Piece: 2870
Folio: 74
Page Number: 20
Household Members:
Name Age
William H. Preston 35
Catherine Preston 33
William T. Bruntnall 14


Her second husband died 1883:

William Henry Preston
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: William Henry Preston
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Registration Year: 1883
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 36
Registration district: Dudley
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6c
Page: 47



She died in 1885:

Catherine Preston
in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995
Name: Catherine Preston
Death Date: 14 Jan 1885
Death Place: Staffordshire, England
Probate Date: 18 Feb 1885
Probate Registry: Lichfield

"Administration of the personal estate of Catherine Preston, late of the "Kings Arms" Inn, Princes End, Tipton, in the county of Stafford, widow, who died 14 January at the "Kings Arms", was granted at Lichfield under the usual Limitations to Henry Kingsland of 5 Albion Road, Greet ,near Birmingham , in the county of Warwick, bricklayer, the Uncle and Guardian of William Thomas Brentnall and Charles Richard Brentnall, minors, the Sons and only Next of Kin."

Am wondering if
William Thomas Brentnall and
Charles Richard Brentnall
were brothers?
mother Kingsland

Am confused!! L

I have VIOLET ANNIE BRENTNALLborn April 1894, and note she died in June 1894. Her parents listed as William Thomas Brentnall and Catherine Annie ?

Thanks Rose for your help and also to others who have helped with this puzzle.

Two Douglas couples went to NZ = two brothers married two sisters. Several of the names folk have mentioned above are part of family.

Lyn.

This one also has the MMN Douglas. No guarantee this is Catherine's child:

Births Sep 1882 (>99%)
Douglas Elias Wolverhampton 6b 547 Scan available - click to view
Deaths Mar 1883 (>99%)
DOUGLAS Elias 0 Wolverhampton 6b 370

Rose

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
BRENTNALL, CHARLES RICHARD KINGSLAND
GRO Reference: 1869 J Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 459

Rose

Is this the Violet you mean?

MMN was Douglas also.

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
DOUGLAS, VIOLET ANNETTA -
GRO Reference: 1894 M Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 605

Deaths Jun 1894
Douglas Violet Annetta 0 Wolverhampton 6b 287

Rose

Update....

Catherine Annie Greensill b 1851 Wolverhampton, UK

Christening 5 Oct 1851 St Mary's, Bilston or St Peters, Wolverhampton

Death: 1901 Wolverhampton New Cross Hospital, Wolverhampton, UK

Phew.... Lyn. (morning here in Australia)

I have Catherine Anne Greensill born 14 Swpt 1851 in Temple Street, Bilston, Staffordshire, England......
Am doubting dob of Charles
Richard Brentnall abt 1869?
Lyn.

Many, many thanks for all the information contained in emails. I will have to work through them slowly as have gathered lots of varying information and am hoping to sort it all out. (Name spelt with C or K and Ann or Anne in records)
I have Catherine Anne Greensill b Oct 1851
Married William Douglas 13 March 1873
Divorced in 1885
no record of marriage to William Thomas Brentnall
son Frank killed in 1915 b 1887
Charles Richard Brentnall b abt 1869 d Dec 1901
Violet Annie Brentnall b April 1894 -found her recently.
I have Catherine dying in New Zealand and I am puzzled by that.?

Other relatives of mine are named above - Catjherine and William are my g grandparents. Again my big thanks to all who replied. Lyn in Australia but ex New Zealand.

????

Katharine Annie Douglas
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Katharine Annie Douglas
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Registration Year: 1901
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 43
Registration district: Wolverhampton
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 369


Your Katherine's YOB varies quite a bit in censuses, and age stated on a death cert depends on what the informant thought was correct.
In 1901 census (taken on 31st March) her age is given as 43 (assuming she's the one with William Brentnall).

As she and William Brentnall didn't marry (if that's her with him) , her name was still officially Douglas.

ADDED:
The fact that William Brentnall's partner's ms is given as Douglas on Frank's birth record might be the registrar's mistake , or else a misunderstanding of the question - or she might be a completely different person.

However, I don't see any birth of a Katherine/Catherine Douglas born anywhere in Staffordshire 1850-60

Wiliam T Brentnall appears to have died in Birmingham in 1915.

I can't see him in 1911.

As I said ealier, info about that on the Ancestry tree is NOT RELIABLE

Her husband's death

Name: William Douglas
Estimated birth year: abt 1843
Registration Year: 1892
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 49
Registration district: Walsall
Inferred County: Staffordshire