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Many thanks, ArgyllGran. I was afraid that it might not be "my" one but I just lived in hope as her date was the exact date of birth and the 1939 location near to my grandma. Everything on your research has helped me.

That doesn't seem to be your Mary - although she is Irish.

Mary Barling in 1939 has her son George, born 1901, living with her.

This is the only George Barling born c1901:

BARLING, GEORGE HENRY mms DOMICAN
GRO Reference: 1901 D Quarter in HOLBORN Volume 01B Page 675

His brother:

BARLING, ALBERT EDWARD mms DOMICAN
GRO Reference: 1898 S Quarter in HOLBORN Volume 01B Page 686


This looks like the family in 1911:

Mary Barling
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Mary Barling
Age in 1911: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Stow, Kildare, Ireland
Civil Parish: Islington
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 108 Cloudesley Rd, Islington, London N
Marital status: Married
Estimated Marriage Year: 1898
Registration district: Islington
Registration District Number: 10
Sub-registration district: Barnsbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 01
Piece: 872
Household Members:
Name Age
Albert Barling 38
Mary Barling 36
Albert Barling 12
George Barling 9


And the parents' marriage:

Marriages Jun 1897 (>99%)
Barling Albert Edward Islington 1b 746
DOMICAN Mary Islington 1b 746

I don't know what Mary's middle name of M stands for. I have done a bit more research lately focussing on London. I have found a Mary Ann (wrong middle initial) Barling living in Shirland Road, Paddington (the side road to where Margaret jnr. lived at one time) born the exact day 25/3/1875 on the '39 register. I can't find her marriage to a Mr Barling looking on the London Metropolitan Archives which would confirm some details. Maybe she didn't marry and just took the name of her partner or maybe it's not my Mary at all.

If I can't find proof it's my lady, I think it will have to be research time for Ireland for me.

Thanks for your interesting thoughts ArgyllGran.

I think that all of them are strong possibilities. Maybe the "relation living on own means - Ann Hughes" might have died in England before the others returned to Ireland. To keep the surname line, I think that Ann might have been Margaret's Aunt as her father was Manassa Hughes

No. I don't have the "M" of Mary's second name. On her birth register she is shown as "female child" so the only place I have it is on the 1881 census.

I'll see what Irish records online I can find, then when it opens, I'll do a trip to The National Archives at Kew. After that, it will have to be a trip to PRONI in Belfast but that's way in the future the way things are going.

Many thanks for your help

There are a huge number of Margarets born in Ireland c1844, in 1891 in London alone.

Mary is (in theory) easier to look for. If she stayed in the London area, she would either be listed as Stevenson/Stephenson/etc and away from Margaret, probably in service, or else she would be with Margaret, perhaps with a change of surname.

However, I don't see any sign of any Mary fitting those parameters in the London area.

Nor is Mary anywhere else in England/Wales/Scotland as Ste*nson in 1891.

I strongly suspect Mary at least returned to Ireland before 1891.

My feeing is that Margaret wouldn't have stayed in England and let Mary return to Ireland on her own, at such a young age - under 16.

Once back there, I suppose Margaret may well have taken up with some man as you suggest, to account for there being no sign of her as Ste*nson.

Who knows?! It's all conjecture.

Do you know what Mary's middle initial M stands for?

I agree, ArgyllGran with not finding Margaret snr and Mary. I wondered if both ladies married but if they did, I can't find marriages or deaths. If Margaret snr had remarried, technically she would have still been married to William. I wonder if she set up home with someone when William left her for Elizabeth and just took his surname to look official

Searching Ancestry with surname Ste*son doesn't find them anywhere.

irishgenealogy.ie automatically searches for all possible spelling variations.

A few years ago, I went to the PRONI in Belfast looking for my ancestors on their amazing resources. At that time, I was not searching for Margaret snr. or Mary returning to Ireland.

There were various spellings of the name Stevenson and Steenson but on her wedding certificate in Paddington, London 1904, my Nan's single name is spelt Stephenson so I am wondering if Margaret snr and Mary are using that spelling while still living in London. I have searched so many records but just cannot find them. I wonder if I might go to the London Metropolitan Archives when the virus problem is over to see if I can find school records for schools near Queen's Park and West Kilburn. That might be another avenue I could follow. I cannot find marriages or deaths for both ladies after 1881

There's no sign of Mary or Margaret senior either marrying or dying on irishgenealogy.ie
There are various records of women with those names - but not the right people, on inspection of the images.

Ann Hughes was born in Fermanagh, according to 1881 census - not that that seems to help at all.

Assuming they returned to Armagh, there's no sign of her death there, at least on irishgenealogy.ie, nor on Ancestry.

Nor do I see her death in Hendon.

I suggested earlier that they may have returned to Ireland - have you done anything about following that line of enquiry?

Sorry, I made a typing mistake in putting 1818 (instead of 1881) -1901 as period of Margaret snrs' death; she wasn't born till 1844 as I put in the introduction.

All the links of Elizabeth come from a similar area of London so I guess that they knew each other before William and Elizabeth went from Albert Gardens to Liverpool (most likely after her husband's death.)
…………………………………..

Margaret snr. and Mary are the focus of my queries as I share blood with them and they are the ones that I cannot trace after 1881. I can't find my grandmother Margaret either on the 1891 census but that's not too important as she shows up on 1901 and 1911.

Another child of Elizabeth and Thomas Moody:

MOODY, WILLIAM JOHN mms WAKERLEY
GRO Reference: 1880 D Quarter in HENDON Volume 03A Page 157


William John Moody
in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1917
Name: William John Moody
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 17 Nov 1880
Baptism Place: Paddington St Augustine, Westminster, England
Father: Thomas James Moody
Mother: Elizabeth Jane Moody
Register Type: Parish Registers

Address: 15 Canterbury Road.


and his death:

William John Moody
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: William John Moody
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Registration Year: 1882
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 1
Registration district: Hendon
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 87


The family in 1881 - same address as at young William's baptism:

Elizabeth Moody
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Moody
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: Thomas Moody
Gender: Female
Where born: Wales
Civil Parish: Willesden
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address: 15A Canterbury Rd
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration district: Hendon
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors:
Piece: 1362
Folio: 89
Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Moody 29
Elizabeth Moody 25
James Moody 4
Rose Moody 2
William Moody 5 months

I don't see James's birth - perhaps the name's a mistake and should be Thomas junior.


Elizabeth's birth:

WAKERLY, ELIZABETH JANE mms HODGSON
GRO Reference: 1855 J Quarter in HAY Volume 11B Page 147


Her husband's death:

Thomas James Moody
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Thomas James Moody
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Registration Year: 1884
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 32
Registration district: Hendon
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 90a


In 1881 William Stevenson was in Albert Road, Hendon, which runs parallel to Canterbury Road, joined by Canterbury Terrace nowadays.

I too (and possibly other helpers) had spent hours looking for the children's births, before you mentioned the 1901 marriage.

Small bits of information can make a huge difference.

If Margaret died, it was between 1881 and 1901, not 1818 and 1901 - and that assumes that William was telling the truth when he described himself as widowed. He would not have had to prove it.

I apologise ErikaH for wasting your time. That was not my intention.
……………………………………………..

ArgyllGran, some of your facts are extra for me so I will add the details to my tree.

Further research indicates that Margaret Snr. died between 1818 and 1901 as William was widowed when he married Elizabeth in 1901. I am sorry, I should have put that in my first post

If you’d said at the start that William married Elizabeth in 1901, and given her surname I could have avoided wasting time looking for the births of Thomas, Alice and John

So, just for our satisfaction:

Marriages Dec 1901 (>99%)
MOODY Elizabeth Jane Liverpool 8b 301
STEVENSON William Liverpool 8b 301


Marriages Mar 1876 (>99%)
MOODY Thomas James St Geo H Sq 1a 543
Wakerley Elizabeth Jane St Geo H Sq 1a 543
Wakerly Elizabeth Jane St Geo H Sq 1a 543


The children's births:

MOODY, JOHN BLENSHALL mms WAKERLEY
GRO Reference: 1882 D Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 81


MOODY, THOMAS WILLIAM mms WAKERLEY
GRO Reference: 1876 D Quarter in HENDON Volume 03A Page 142


MOODY, ALICE ROSA mms WAKERLEY
GRO Reference: 1878 D Quarter in HENDON Volume 03A Page 142


As ErikaH suggested, Mary and the two Margarets probably returned to Ireland.

Thanks for your various replies. I have sight of William Stevenson from 1881 onwards till his death in Liverpool in 1902. He must have left my grandmother, her sister and mother after 1881 to take up another "wife" Elizabeth, who he didn't marry until 1901. I assume that Margaret snr. must have died by then as he put himself as widowed on the marriage certificate to Elizabeth.

William in Liverpool is the same one as the London one in 1881. William died on September 7th 1902 and I found in my Nan's prayer book the words "my dear father departed this life, September 7th 1902."

1901 for INFO

103, Rathbone Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
William Stevenson Head Married Male 45 1856 Licensed Victualler Ireland
Elizabeth Stevenson Wife Married Female 44 1857 - Paddington, Middlesex, England
Thomas Stevenson Son Single Male 24 1877 A Spinner In Tobacco Works London, Middlesex, England
Alice Stevenson Daughter Single Female 23 1878 Domestic Servant Paddington, Middlesex, England
John Stevenson Son Single Male 18 1883 Spinner In Tobacco Works Paddington, Middlesex, England

I hope this isn't John - he committed suicide by shooting himself in Hyde Park in 1905.

John Stevenson
in the UK, Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services, 1848-1939
Name: John Stevenson
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 20 Apr 1883
Birth Place: Bethnal Green, London
First Service Date: 22 Dec 1898
First Ship Served On: Impregnable
Last Service Date: 11 Jul 1905
Last Ship Served On: Victory I
Service Number: 202350


Yet again, there's no birth to match the details given.

Not really suggesting this is the same John - just posting in case.

In 1901, that William is a licensed victualler, born in Armagh.

1901 says Elizabeth was born in Paddington, whereas 1891 says South Wales.

All the children were born in London, so the family must have been there in 1881, but so far I can't see any of them, nor pinpoint the children's births with a common mms.

1901 says John was born in Paddington, but there's no such birth.

There's a big gap between John and the other children, so, among other possible reasons, it could be that Thomas and Alice/Sissie were Elizabeth's children from another relationship and were born under a different surname.