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My reason for looking at the Barnsley marriage is this...................
1939
2 California Street, Barnsley C.B., Yorkshire (West Riding), England

W Figtree 02 Jun 1882 Male General Labourer Married 182 1
Isobel Figtree 28 Dec 1887 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 182 2
William P Thompson 31 Mar 1904 Male Coal Miner (Underground) Married 182 3
Dorothy Thompson 27 Sep 1918 Female Domestic Servant Married 182 4

First name(s) GEORGE ANDREW
Last name WATSON
Gender Male
Birth day 8
Birth month 10
Birth year 1903
Age -
Death quarter 1
Death year 1979
District Barnsley
County Yorkshire
Volume 3
Page 0231

Just for interest have you seen the obituary of the Allan Ramsden who wrote that book about his travels with a caravan (d 1928 age 86). Teesdale Mercury

It also says he was the organist in the Primitive Methodist Chapel in Barnard Castle

If you google Allan Ramsden author you will find it

In another post by his grt grandaughter the 1881 she posts shows his birth to be 1841/42

"1911 census says he was born in Church Auston, Derbyshire, 1842.
1901 says Auston, Yorkshire, 1837.
1891 says Auston, Yorkshire, 1842.
1881 says Auston, Yorkshire, 1851
1871 says Austin, Durham, 1842
1861 says Auston, 1842
1851 says Church Auston, Yorkshire, 1842."

looking at this I would say it is Anston not Auton (the 'n' is the same as on his name) and there is a South Anston & North Anston in West Yorkshire

Anston is in the registration disrict of Worksop which fits withe the 1842 birth

Thank you all
ErikaH, The Barnsley address you give is for my gran Izabella (known as Isobel) 2 California Street. That is where I visited as a boy to see my gran and her father (blind) Samuel Joseph, William my uncle, Dorothy and and William Thompson my uncle and aunt, the dates you give me are very useful and I will now fill them in

I don't know who George Watson was??

Yes LancashireAnn, I do have the obituary, the letter I have refers to the church and also to Ruby taking over as caretaker.
I thiink you are right about the birthdate of 1842, I have a couple of references to that, I can only assume the others are errors as all the accompanying info is correct. Adso the obituary you mention infers 1942.
As for Auton I will look further into that, if it is Yorkshire it is probably Aston cum Auton (which is now spelled Aughton) and is very near to where I live. It would make sense related to the Barnsley address too, but I believe there is a similar name in the 'Durham' area that I have come accross. If you were to read the book (Life in a caravan) he spends his life around Consett and those districts. He does move addresses quite allot. I will look at all the censuses you mention with great interest.

Thank you again, as ever very helpful, I will get on uopdating stuff and now I have Allans family details I will further populate the tree :)

I KNOW that was your grandmother in 1939

I posted the info as an explanation for giving consideration to the Barnsley marriage of Florence Marsden to George Watson. Please look at the previous page for info.

Anston cum Aughton ( yes, I see I spelled it wrongly by mistake on page 4), is the same place as North and South Anston, which Ann suggested.


"Anston is a civil parish in South Yorkshire, England, formally known as North and South Anston. The parish of Anston-cum-Aughton consists of the settlements of North Anston and South Anston, divided by the Anston Brook."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anston

Yes that last info on Allan (not Allen by the way as in some records) at Cockfield with the family - all agrees with what I have! Thanks :)

I cant believe that to be Anston are Aston (cum Aughton) which are villages adjoining Sheffield and down the road from me. All his travels are around the Durham area and I feel I have seen a reference to Auton in the Durham area in a document that I cant find at present. That reference to Newton as Josephs wife is very useful, it seems from a blog I read that she suffered from an abusive relationship and died at around 40.
I must say I am having great trouble in finding census references as mentioned, I used to find it much easier in earlier days to just link to the original hand written documents, is it possible to do that still, or am I getting it wrong in the way I am using the site? I am selecting Census Land and surveys on the left and using 'other in the 'event type box plus the year in question e.g. 1831.
Thanks again to you fro so much help!

As for Florence that marriage info does look better than I have especially with the son who lived/lives in an area of Barnsley I know quite well (Michel street).
I have found the sons record birht record but cannot find Goerge A (the husband) All I hve foudn so far is Alfie George.

John -
you asked about seeing original census documents.

Most of us on here don't use GR for finding records, but I've had a look, as that seems to be what you're using.

You can't just find a random census (and incidentally, there's no census for 1831) without specifying a person's name. Well, you can, but if you don't enter a person's name, and only select "other" and the date of the census, as you say you've been doing, then you get (taking 1841 as an example) 18237874 results - ie - the total number of census entries in 1841 for the whole of England and Wales - but not showing any person's name.
If you click on the "page" logo at the right hand side of any of those results at random, you're asked to spend 5 credits to view a transcription ( NOT an original document) and you don't know in advance whose record you'll be looking at. Pointless!

So you need to look for a specific person in that year.
To find (for instance) Allan Ramsden (born 1842), you select Census, Land and Surveys, put in his name and year of birth, LEAVE "EVENT TYPE" AS "BIRTH" and click "Search now".
That will give you all the censuses in which he is listed.
At least, it gives you all the censuses in which his birth is given as 1842 - not those where it's given as something else.
To look at the original of any of them, click on the camera logo at the right hand side. When you confirm that you're willing to spend 5 credits, you'll see the image of the original document.

It's a great deal easier to find someone on censuses on Ancestry or FMP, and also much easier to spot that person in years where the YOB isn't what you're expecting it to be - which is why we don't use GR for records.

You say, "I don't know who George Watson was??"

I'm not sure what you mean.

You've been given the 1935 marriage record, and the 1939 register showing Florence and George, with their dates of birth.

Then you've been given George's death in 1979.

This is his birth:

WATSON, GEORGE ANDREW mms BIRKINSHAW
GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in BARNSLEY Volume 09C Page 210


The only other record you'll find him on is the 1911 census - it would help to know his father's name.



His mother's name was Birkinshaw.

So this will be his parents' marriage:

Marriages Dec 1901 (>99%)
BIRKINSHAW Elizabeth Ann Barnsley 9c 450
Watson Andrew Smith Barnsley 9c 450

This is the family in 1911. I know it doesn't say he was born in Barnsley in 1903 - but censuses don't always say what you expect.:

George Watson
in the 1911 England Census
Name: George Watson
Age in 1911: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1904
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Staircross, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: South Shields
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address: Tyne Dock Southe Shields
Registration district: South Shields
Registration District Number: 556
Sub-registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 68
Piece: 30327
Household Members:
Name Age
Andrew Watson 30
Elizabeth Watson 40
George Watson 7
Hilda Watson 6
Alice Watson 4
Herbert Watson 1

HIs siblings' births:


WATSON, HERBERT HARTON mms BIRKINSHAW
GRO Reference: 1910 M Quarter in SOUTH SHIELDS Volume 10A Page 797

WATSON, HILDA RHODA mms BIRKINSHAW
GRO Reference: 1905 M Quarter in BARNSLEY Volume 09C Page 217


WATSON, SARAH ALICE mms BIRKINSHAW
GRO Reference: 1906 S Quarter in BARNSLEY Volume 09C Page 190


Staincross was part of the Barnsley registration district until 1938.

Re Allan Ramsden -

you mention an Auton in the Durham area.
I don't think there's any need to worry about looking for that.

Although he was almost certainly born in the Rotherham area, his family moved from there, and lived in the Durham area.

In 1951 they're in Cockfield; in 1861 in Barnard Castle; in 1871 in Hunwick, Co Durham.
By 1881 he's married and living in Barrow in Furness; in 1891 in Consett & Knitsley.


Although his mother was born in Whitby, his father was born in Bramley, Leeds - so the family origins weren't in Durham area.

Hi again and many thanks again!
I am still going through all your notes and thought I should get back to you.
Thanks ErikaH for the info on George Watson, I did have a different marriage with Florence and Robert Clarke (Rotherham) which seemed to make sense but now I see this looks a better match.
Lancashire Ann – you mention ‘…a post by hi grt grandaughter’ it would be very useful if you could give me any info about which G grandaughter that was and any link to it? Thanks re the Auston reference, I think we have now established that should be Anston in South Yorkshire/Worksop (near to me ??)
Argyllgran, Thanks for your help re census, I have been entering the date to refine the search of course. Thanks for your guidance there though. I don’t have to use credits now as I have full membership, I have now only just started to look at FMP.
Re the Watson thing – my mistake there, I skipped a page and didn’t see the details – oops!
The Birkinshaw link is very interesting as I have met and visited the offspring in the 60s. They still exist having the local Butchers shop in Staincross and Mapplewell . There was a farm and shop (Robert) the other had a plant hire company in the village.
I am currently locating the son of George (Alan A Watson) as there is just a chance he is still alive (born 1936) or He may have family. I do have a record which shows an Alan A marrying a Joyce M Poxon 1963 but haven’t found a family yet.
I have now found Allans birth record in the Worksop area (local authority for N & S Anston – although Anston is regarded as part of Sheffield)
Thank you all again, I am still finding nuggets as I read again through your info.

There were two Watson/Poxon births in the 1960s .

You'll find them on FreeBMD

Google ‘Allan Ramsden travels with a caravan’ and you will find a link to kit grandfathers book’ posted byLiz

Thanks LancashireAnn, it was Liz I was trying to find early on further to the blogt hat I foudn on googleand that she did 15 years ago but didnt show any link to her. However, I already have a veryold copy of the book which is what started me on this journey. I have since acquired a newer copy of it, it is a very enjoyable read although I haven't read it in detail yet. It mentions many of the places he visited around Consett

I should try to get the newspaper up there to take an interest, I think it could prove an enjoyable read in excerpts for those in the relevant areas - maybe when I have more meat on the bones of things.

Hi again
I am struggling at present to find a census record to prove I have the right household for Alan A Watson (1936) son of Florence Ramsden who appears to have married Joyce M Poxon (928!) in Barnsley (sth Yorks) in 1963, they have two sons born 1966/8 (Carl and Geoffrey Alan). I have all documents OK but checked here and FMP and can find no census record to show the household to prove the right household. It appears from here that Joyce gave birth at age of 40 and 42 - somewhat old but not uncommon. There is another Joyce M in Haenor Derbyshire who is younger but doesn't seem to fit. The Barnsley address does seem to fit as there is family there. Can you help please?

I also want to get an address so that I can follow up as hopefully these should still be alive