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I have Ellen Elizabeth Bell appearing as a 9 yr old daughter of George Bell and Ann Elizabeth Bell nee Guy on the 1891 census. Born Southwell, Nottinghamshire, resident Pleasley Hill, Mansfield, Notts. However this is the only reference for her I can find. There's no birth registration (one for Elizabeth Ellen has a different MMN), no death reg, or anything. I am beginning to wonder if she was a figment of the emunerator's imagination. I can trace all other family members. Can anyone else find her?

????

Births Jun 1882 (>99%)
Guy Ellen Elizabeth Southwell 7b 403

Thanks safc, you could be on to something.

Married 1902, Derbyshire to James Henry Clarke. Witnesses were Henry and Martha Bell.

Evidently married after Ellen Elizabeth's birth:

Marriages Sep 1882 (>99%)

Bell George Southwell 7b 575
GUY Ann Elizabeth Southwell 7b 575

Thanks Choccy, that makes sense Martha was her sister and Henry was her step-brother. Where did you find this?

No MMN on the GRO index for that birth, confirming the child’s illegitimacy

Always check the GRO site which shows MMN (or absence thereof) on records pre-1911

Margaret M, yes, Ann Elizabeth was George's second wife, they married just over 3 mths after he lost his first wife, he had 3 kids 5 and under so would have been desparate for someone to look after them. Ann already had another illegimate daughter living with her parents, although oddly she was still with her grandparents in 1891. I hadn't considered that she might have had a second illegimate child.

Name: Ellen Elizabeth Guy
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 20
Birth Date: 1882
Marriage Date: 17 May 1902
Marriage Place: Pinxton, Derbyshire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Pinxton' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish

no father named

Erika, I had already done that following safc flagging the entry up. As my further comment indicates this is her second illegitimate child. The other one Sarah actually married George Bell's oldest son from his first marriage.

Marriage entry While we have made all efforts to correctly record the information in the original document there may be different interpretations of the written words. If you have access to the original document and believe we have made a mistake you are encouraged to report this to us. Report an Error in this Data Field
(only fields with a value are shown) Value
County Nottinghamshire
Place (Links to more information) Morton
Church name (Links to more information) St Denis
Register type (Links to more information) Transcript
Marriage date 25 Sep 1882
Groom forename George
Groom surname BELL
Groom age Full age
Bride forename Ann Elizabeth
Bride surname GUY
Bride age Full age
Groom father forename George
Groom father surname BELL
Bride father forename John
Bride father surname GUY
Notes Groom signed X.
Transcribed by John Turton
File line number 31

1939
677 Chesterfield Road, Mansfield M.B., Nottinghamshire, England
Ellen E Clarke 28 Mar 1882 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 70 1
Albert L Clarke 19 Jun 1910 Male Colliery Hewer Single 70 2
Alan A Clarke 18 Oct 1923 Male Colliery Haulage Hand Single 70 3

ALBERT L
Last name CLARKE
Birth year 1910
Birth quarter 3
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Guy
District Mansfield
County Nottinghamshire

ALAN A
Last name CLARKE
Birth year 1923
Birth quarter 4
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Guy
District Mansfield

ELLEN E
Last name CLARKE
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1882
Age 80
Death quarter 3
Death year 1962
District Mansfield
County Nottinghamshire
Volume 3C
Page 140

Thanks Maddie

James ???
1911
Wilson St Pinxton Alfreton, Pinxton, Derbyshire, England
Thomas Clarke Head Widower Male 67 1844 Coal Miner Hewer Pinxton Derbyshire
Arthur Edsor Clarke Son Single Male 23 1888 Coal Miner Hewer Pinxton Derbyshire
James Henry Clarke Son Married Male 35 1876 Coal Miner Hewer Pinxton Derbyshire

father and son are miners on his marriage

WILLIAM HENRY
Last name CLARKE
Birth year 1905
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Guy
District Mansfield
County Nottinghamshire

so 1911 ellens details very unclear and crossed thro

MABEL
Last name CLARKE
Birth year 1906
Birth quarter 4
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Guy
District Mansfield

72 Portlant St Pleasley Hill Mansfield, Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, England
J H Clarke Wife - Female 29 1882 - Southwell Notts
William H Clarke Son - Male 6 1905 - Pleasley Notts
Mabel Clarke Daughter - Female 4 1907 - Pleasley Notts
Albert Lawrence Clarke Son - Male 0 1911 - Pleasley Notts
Charles Allcocke Boarder Widower Male 44 1867 Coal Miner Hewer Selstone Notts
Charlotte E Allcocke Boarder Single Female 18 1893 Factory Hand Worsted St Normanton Derbyshire

Maddie, yes i've just come across this odd 1911 census entry, the place of birth on the top line is right for Ellen. The thought crossed my mind that she might have been a suffragette and dissenting from being included, or they simply made a mess of completing the form.

Have just noticed that James isn't listed on the 1939 reg with the family, Ellen isn't listed as a widow.

his death ???

JAMES H
Last name CLARKE
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1876
Age 74
Death quarter 1
Death year 1950
District Chesterfield

and possibly 1939 in hospital

Mapperley Hospital Porchester Road,Nottingham, Nottingham C.B., Nottinghamshire, England
James H Clarke ? ? 1877 Male None Married 1 90

Have I think solved the 1911 census issue having looked at both Maddie's census refs. It looks like John Henry was with his father and brother in Pinxton. I've also established that James was a patient in Mapperley Hospital on the 1939 Reg. The missing item is where Ellen was in 1901 as I can't yet find her on the census. I've tracked down the scan of the marriage reg and the other items referred to above, thanks everyone for pointing me to those and identifying the initial issue that Ellen was born Guy not Bell.