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Charlotte Smith
Birth unknown
Death 12 Jan 1906
Burial
Cheltenham Cemetery
Cheltenham, Charles Sturt City, South Australia, Australia
Plot J
Memorial ID 154082279 · View Source


ancestry links this one to charlotte lomas
Name: Charlotte Smith
Birth Year: abt 1845
Age: 62
Death Date: 19 Jul 1907
Death Place: North Adelaide
Residence Place: North Adelaide
Registration Place: Adelaide, South Australia
Page Number: 319
Volume Number: 326

Name: Charlotte Lomas
Father's name: John Lomas
Spouse Name: Henry Smith
Spouse's Father's Name: William Smith
Marriage Date: 28 Nov 1865
Marriage Place: Adelaide
Registration Place: Adelaide, South Australia
Page Number: 239
Volume Number: 64

Yes, that seems more likely, Maddie. However, without being able to view the actual stone to see if any relatives are listed, we don't know which Charlotte that is.

That's the 1907 death I posted earlier.
I also posted the death of a Henry Smith in North Adelaide in 1895 - now seems likely to be Charlotte Lomas's husband.

Charlotte Lomas and Henry Smith had several children , all born in Adelaide between 1865 and 1887.

Too many Henry Smiths!

I'm giving up on this search.
We have at least three Henry Smiths :
One who married Charlotte Walker, one who married Charlotte Lomas, and one who married Ann Sandwell.

But at least we can be sure that Charlotte Walker's husband is NOT the one who died on 13 Nov 1912.
And we don't know the birthplace of any of the Henrys .

Regrettably, until Ellen accepts what is clearly factual info, it is pointless to bother any further with this

My friend says that Nayland appears on the death certificate, these are the children of Henry & Charlotte
Surname: SMITH
Given Names: Alfred William
Date: 1869-02-23
Sex: M
Father: Henry SMITH
Mother: Charlotte WALKER
Birth Place/Residence: Norwood
District Code: Ade

Surname: SMITH
Given Names: Annie Jessie
Date: 1880-06-23
Sex: M
Father: Henry SMITH
Mother: Charlotte WALKER
Birth Place/Residence: Port Wakefield
District Code: Gil

Surname: SMITH
Given Names: Charles Henry
Date: 1867-03-16
Sex: M
Father: Henry SMITH
Mother: Charlotte WALKER
Birth Place/Residence: Norwood
District Code: Ade

Surname: SMITH
Given Names: Charlotte Elizabeth
Date: 1865-02-18
Sex: F
Father: Henry SMITH
Mother: Charlotte WALKER
Birth Place/Residence: Adelaide
District Code: Ade

Surname: SMITH
Given Names: Edward James
Date: 1877-03-10
Sex: M
Father: Henry SMITH
Mother: Charlotte WALKER
Birth Place/Residence: Port Wakefield
District Code: Gil

Surname: SMITH
Given Names: Ethel Page
Date: 1873-05-16
Sex: F
Father: Henry SMITH
Mother: Charlotte WALKER
Birth Place/Residence: Norwood
District Code: Ade

Surname: SMITH
Given Names: Robert Page
Date: 1871-02-10
Sex: M
Father: Henry SMITH
Mother: Charlotte WALKER
Birth Place/Residence: Norwood
District Code: Ade

Surname: SMITH
Given Names: Sydney Edward
Date: 1878-10-21
Sex: M
Father: Henry SMITH
Mother: Charlotte WALKER
Birth Place/Residence: Port Wakefield
District Code: Ade

In view of the above postings, WHY do you persist in referring to the man as Henry CHARLES?

It's good to know, finally, that there is some documentary evidence for birth in Nayland.

But as that's from the death cert, presumably that's the 1912 death of the Henry who married ANN?

Or am I completely confused?

Please can you tell us ALL the wording on the death cert?

Does it say "husband of - - - " or similar?

This is Henry Charles Smith death details
Record Transcription:
South Australia Deaths 18
First name(s)
Henry Charles
Last name
Smith
Gender
Male
Status
Married
Birth year
1840
Death year
1912
Death date
13 Nov 1912
Age at death
72y
Residence
Glanville
Place
Glanville
District
Port Adelaide
State
South Australia
Country
Australia
Registration number
370/25
Record set
South Australia Deaths 1842-1972
Category

My friends says there is no wife's details as she died in 1906 all of the children are on it 8 in all

You've given us the online transcription of his death record, but not the actual wording on the death cert.

However - your friend says that his birthplace of Nayland is given on the death cert, and no info re wife.
The children's names on it prove that (as far as the informant knew) Henry Charles of Nayland was married to Charlotte Walker, and he died in Glanville.
All as stated in your opening sentence on page 1 .

We can't find a baptism for any Henry Charles with father William in Nayland area. (Nor of a Henry without middle name, for that matter.) That's frustrating, but not uncommon, as many births at that time were not registered, and either he wasn't baptised or else the record hasn't survived.

So as far as your original query is concerned, that's the answer, unsatisfactory though it is - sorry, but we can't find anything about his birth or parents.

The Henry with parents William and Judith, born in Hadleigh, might be a possibility. Hadleigh is about 8 miles from Nayland. He seems to disappear from the UK censuses after 1851. But no proof.



Our problem is because of the conflicting death info.

The middle name of Charles only appears on Charlotte's husband's death record - not at marriage, and not at any of the children's births.


Does the death cert give his address at time of death?


You said -
"Funeral Notice in The Express and Telegraph Wed 13 Nov 1912
SMITH The funeral of the late Mr Henry Charles Smith late Stevedore are informed that his remains will be removed from his late residence James Street Glanville on THURSDAY at 2.30pm for Interment in the Woodville Cemetery

This is the Henry Charles Smith married to Charlotte Walker"


But he's not - as this other report already posted proves:

SMITH.--On the 13th November, at James-street, Glanville, Henry Charles, the dearly beloved husband of Annie Smith, leaving one son and three daughters to mourn their sad loss, aged 72 years. At rest.

Thank you everyone for all of your messages, this has been a very tricky search as we have 2 Henry Charles Smith dying in 1912 one day apart of each other which is very frustrating
It looks like the one I though was mine dying at James Street is not mine, my friend is today at the library trying to sort this all out. I shall let you know if she does :-(

Coming back to this after a few days in the hope of some new thought occurring to me! (Without success.)

How did your friend get on at the library?



Everything we've found online about Henry Charles relates to Ann's husband.
There appears to be nothing online about Charlotte's husband's death.

So -
You said that Charlotte's husband died on 14 Nov.
Presumably that's what it says on the death cert which your friend has?
We know it gives Charlotte's name and those of the children, and his birthplace of Nayland.

What 's the exact wording of everything on your friend's Henry's death cert, please?
His address at death?
Does the cert actually call him Henry Charles? Or just Henry, as in his marriage record and all the children's births?

So far, it looks as if his death record is not online.

Hello ArgyllGran, My friend is still going backwards & forward to the Library I think that Henry Charles was just plain Henry no Charles. Will get back to this site as soon as we sort it out, thanks everyone for your help Ellen

Isn't that what we've been trying to get you to accept?

I am trying to get my friend to accept it she has the death certificate which I tell her is Henry Charles who was married to Annie Sandwell ( I have not seen this certificate it is A3 & can not copy it she lives some way from me) I think it might be the Henry who died 9/9/1895 she is checking it out at the library will keep you updated

Thanks, Ellen. It will be interesting to know the outcome.

As already mentioned, the Henry who died in 1895 might have been the husband of Charlotte Lomas.

Oh no we now have 2 Charlotte's marrying a Henry Smith, one 28/11/1865 & 18/3/1865 so it looks like the Henry who died in 1895 is not mine after all it gets worse

I have just been given this information,I think that the death of Henry in 1895 that has his wife as Charlotte Lomas should read Charlotte Walker?


This is his death notice: South Australian Chronicle, Adelaide, SA. Sat. 14 Sep 1895. Pg. 4. SMITH.—On the 9th September, at his residence, Palmer-place, N.A., Henry Smith, late of Reigate, England, aged 58.
Note the address of Henry when his eldest son Charles Henry got married. The Express and Telegraph, Adelaide, SA. 25 Jun 1892. SMITH—CLAUSEN.— ..., by the Very Rev. the Dean of Adelaide, Charles Henry, eldest son of Henry Smith, Esq., Palmer-place, N.A., to Eno, second daughter of A. Clausen, Esq., of Malvern, South Australia.


j

I don't think we've found anything stating that Henry who died in 1895 was Charlotte Lomas's husband - it was just a suggestion that he might be.

The death and marriage reports you've posted giving the Palmer Place address do look good, and it does look as if it is indeed Charlotte Walker's husband who died in 1895.


If that's so, then we're still looking for the birth/baptism of a Henry Smith c1837, with father William, and who lived in Reigate before emigrating at some time before 1867.


However, on re-reading this thread, I'm still confused.
You said that the 1912 death cert listed all the Smith/Walker children.
How can that be, if Henry actually died in 1895?

And we know that the 1912 death was Henry Charles, the husband of Annie - so how could it have the other family's children on it?

We still need to know all the wording on the death cert which your friend has.

The tree on Ancestry, for Henry who married Charlotte Walker, says he was born at Snowfields, Reigate on 22 May 1837.

I don't know where they got the birth date, but this is said to be his baptism:

Henry Smith
in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1917
Name: Henry Smith
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 18 Jun 1837
Baptism Place: Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene, Southwark, England
Father: William Smith, shopkeeper
Mother: Mary Ann Smith
Register Type: Parish Registers

Address: Snowfields.



And the family:

Henery Smith
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Henery Smith
[Henry Smith]
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Gender: Male
Where born: Surrey, England
Civil Parish: St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: Snowfields
Occupation:
View image
Registration district: St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
Sub-registration district: Leather Market
Neighbors:
Piece: 1047
Book: 1
Folio: 7
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
William Smith 29
Mary Ann Smith 30
William Smith 7
Charles Smith 6
Henery Smith 4
Elizabeth Smith 2 Mo


Henry Smith
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Henry Smith
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1838
Relation: Son
Father's name: Willm Smith
Mother's name: Mary Ann Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration district: Bermondsey
Sub-registration district: Leather Market
ED, institution, or vessel: 01
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 22
Piece: 1562
Folio: 6
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Willm Smith 39
Mary Ann Smith 40
William Smith 16
Charles Smith 15
Henry Smith 13
Elizabeth Smith 10
Alfred Smith 8
Fredk Smith 6
Mary Ann Smith 10 Mo
Hannah Guddin 23 - servant


Henry's not with the family in 1861:

William Smith
in the 1861 England Census
Name: William Smith
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: 1813
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary A Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Southwark St John
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St John Horsleydown
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 316
Piece: 317
Folio: 73
Page Number: 74
Household Members:
Name Age
William Smith 48 - proprietor of houses
Mary A Smith 50
Elizabeth Smith 20
Alfred Smith 17
Frederick Smith 15
Mary A Smith 10
Jennett Giddes 32 - servant
Ann Saker 65 - [ in a different household - mistranscription.]



But Bermondsey is over 20 miles away from Reigate, so I'm not sure about that family.