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Martha Brabander married in Birkenhead 1880

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date
Marked As Answer Marked as Answered

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 15 Jan 2020 10:55

The Parker fammily posted for 1911 is not connected. It's a separate sheet, accurately transcribed on FMP.

Ancestry have messed it up.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 15 Jan 2020 10:35

Sorry - confusion my fault, in posting that wrong 1911 census!
I hadn't paid enough attention to Martha's death date.

There's a Robinson/Faulkner marriage in 1878 in Salford , with no apparent subsequent children, which fits that wrong 1911 couple.

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 15 Jan 2020 09:48

William is a widower by 1911

William Robinson
Age in 1911: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relation to Head: Father
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Birkenhead
Civil Parish: Birkenhead
Search Photos: Search for 'Birkenhead' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street address: 23 Upper Beckwith Street
Marital status: Widowed
Occupation: Coal Heaver
Registration district: Birkenhead
Registration District Number: 452
Sub-registration district: Birkenhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 41
Piece: 21998
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles John Parker 28
Mary Jane Parker 29
Sarah Mason Parker 9
William Robinson 55
John Robinson 22
Charels Robinson 18
Margaret Robinson 30
Margaret Robinson

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 15 Jan 2020 09:48

Marriage AMJ 1880 does not tally with 32 complete years of marriage at time of 1911 census

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 15 Jan 2020 01:07

My conclusion is that the 1911 Census is wrong, but I have not found William in the 1911 Census

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 15 Jan 2020 00:39

Re-posting the 1911 Census

Name: Mrs Martha Robinson
Age in 1911: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Chedle, Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Pendleton
Search Photos: Search for 'Pendleton' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 94 Tootal Drive Pendleton Salford
Marital status: Married
Registration district: Salford
Registration District Number: 465
Sub-registration district: Pendleton
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Piece: 23948
Household Members:
Name Age
William Robinson 53 b. Bury, Lancashire, Painter & Decorator
Martha Robinson 50
Robert Armstrong 23 Boarder, Confectioner

from image:-
Married 32 years.
NO children


It most definitely says NONE for children against Martha's name

Sooooooooooooo ..............

why are there Robinson/Brabander births??????????????



BUT AG has also found a death for a Martha Robinson in 1906, with a birth date of ca 1864.

There's something wrong here!!!

Fetlar13

Fetlar13 Report 14 Jan 2020 13:15

Thank you all so much for all your help, some fascinating stuff in there!

safc

safc Report 14 Jan 2020 12:45

Marriage: 4 Aug 1857 St Matthias, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Theodore Francois Debrabander - 20, Mariner, Bachelor, Birkenhead
Mary Ann Rinen - (X), 17, Spinster, Denison St Liverpool
Groom's Father: Johannes Baptiste Debrabander, Master Mariner
Bride's Father: John Rinen, Carpenter
Witness: David McCowen, (X); Ann McClaughlan, (X)
Married by Licence by: John R Pilling
Register: Marriages 1850 - 1877, Page 78, Entry 155
Source: LDS Film 1656207

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 14 Jan 2020 12:45

For elimination only -

NOT Theodore Francois's parents' marriage - this is dated 1858


Joannes Baptista Franciscus De Brabander
in the Antwerp, Belgium, Civil Registration, 1796-1906
Name: Joannes Baptista Franciscus De Brabander
Gender: Male
Spouse: Jacoba Antonia Warens


EDIT:

I suppose it could be a second marriage for Theodore François's father.

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 14 Jan 2020 12:45

Confirms my posting at 12:24

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 14 Jan 2020 12:35

No, Mary Ann Riner must be the same person as Bridget Ryan.

Here's the son John's birth:

DEBRABANDER, JOHN mms RYAN
GRO Reference: 1859 M Quarter in WIRRAL Volume 08A Page 453

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 14 Jan 2020 12:32

The family before Martha's birth. Looks like Bridget Ryan was a second wife:

John De Eabander
in the 1861 England Census
Name: John De Eabander
[John De Brabander]
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: 1859
Relation: Son
Father's name: Francis De Eabander
Mother's name: Mary De Eabander
Gender: Male
Where born: Bhead, Cheshire, England
[Birkenhead, Cheshire, England]
Civil Parish: Birkenhead
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Birkenhead
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: Birkenhead
Sub-registration district: Birkenhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 32
Piece: 2642
Folio: 44
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Francis De Eabander 25 - Antwerp, Belgium
Mary De Eabander 22 - Liverpool
John De Eabander 2



Mary Ann Riner
in the Liverpool, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932
Name: Mary Ann Riner
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 17
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1840
Marriage Date: 4 Aug 1857
Marriage Place: Liverpool, St Matthias, Lancashire, England
Father: John Riner
Spouse: Theodore Francois Debrabander

Theodore's father: Johannes Baptiste Debrabander

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 14 Jan 2020 12:31

1881

Name: Francis Brabinder
Age: 43
Estimated birth year: abt 1838
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Bridget Brabinder
Gender: Male
Where born: Belgium
Civil Parish: Birkenhead
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street address: 23 Cumberland Pl
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Rigger (Ship)
Registration district: Birkenhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 31
Piece: 3582
Folio: 32
Page Number: 44
Household Members:
Name Age
Francis Brabinder 43
Bridget Brabinder 41
Charles Brabinder 11
Catherine Brabinder 3


Martha's mother

Name: Bridget Ryan
Age: 0
Birth Date: 15 Dec 1839
Baptism Date: 30 Dec 1839
Baptism Place: St Mary's, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: John Ryan
Mother: Margaret Ryan

Fetlar13

Fetlar13 Report 14 Jan 2020 12:27

Confirms that the family came from the Low Countries,

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 14 Jan 2020 12:26

Martha Robinson
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Martha Robinson
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Registration Year: 1906
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 42
Registration district: Birkenhead
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 315

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 14 Jan 2020 12:25

Mrs Martha Robinson
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Mrs Martha Robinson
Age in 1911: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Chedle, Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Pendleton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Marital status: Married
Household Members:
Name Age
William Robinson 53
Martha Robinson 50
Robert Armstrong 23

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 14 Jan 2020 12:24

Martha Robinson
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Martha Robinson
Gender: Female
Age: 29
Relationship: Wife
Birth Year: 1862
Spouse: William Robinson
Child: Margaret Robinson
George Robinson
Mary E Robinson
John Robinson
Martha Robinson
Birth Place: Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Birkenhead
Ecclesiastical parish: St Anne
Residence Place: Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
Registration district: Birkenhead
Sub registration district: Birkenhead
ED, Institution or Vessel: 38
Neighbors:
Piece: 2886
Folio: 108
Household Members:
Name Age
William Robinson 32
Martha Robinson 29
Margaret Robinson 10
George Robinson 9
Mary E Robinson 7
John Robinson 2
Martha Robinson 1


Martha Robinson
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Martha Robinson
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Spouse: William Robinson
Birth Place: Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Birkenhead
Ecclesiastical parish: St Anne
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Birkenhead
Sub-registration district: Birkenhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 40
Neighbors:
Piece: 3393
Folio: 124
Page Number: 10
Household schedule number: 59
Household Members:
Name Age
William Robinson 43
Martha Robinson 39
Margaret Robinson 20
George Robinson 18
Mary E Robinson 17
John Robinson 12
Martha Robinson 11
Charles H Robinson 6
Kate Robinson

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 14 Jan 2020 12:24

DEBRABANDER, MARTHA (MMN) RYAN
GRO Reference: 1861 J Quarter in WIRRAL Volume 08A Page 480

DEBRABANDER, JOHN RYAN
GRO Reference: 1859 M Quarter in WIRRAL Volume 08A Page 453

MargaretM

MargaretM Report 14 Jan 2020 12:24

Possibly Martha in 1871?

Martha Brabande

in the 1871 England Census
View 1871 England Census

Name: Martha Brabande
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: 1862
Relation: Daughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Birkenhead Cheshire England
Civil Parish: Birkenhead
Ecclesiastical parish: St Anne
Town: Birkenhead
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Registration district: Birkenhead
Sub-registration district: Birkenhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Household schedule number: 146
Piece: 3749
Folio: 18
Page Number: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
Francis Brabande 34
Bridget Brabande 32
John Brabande 19
Martha Brabande 9

Edit: Note that son John is only 13 tears younger than Bridget.
Chas Brabande 1

Fetlar13

Fetlar13 Report 14 Jan 2020 12:23

Wow thanks that's fantastic!!