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A very big thank you to everyone who responded - pretty sure I have the right Elizabeth Chirnside now. It seems she did not marry John Thomson, the father of her son John Thomson born July 1819 at Eccles and baptised August 1820 in a private ceremony with John and Mary Spark as witnesses. child was noted as 'illegitimate' by the rcle rk. No evidence that either John snr or Elizabeth ever lived together or married anyone else or had other children. Elizabeth ended her days living with a brother, but John snr I have still not found - too many John Thomsons in Scotland to be sure I have the right one.

Elaine - your comment reminds me of Tintin's detective friends - the Thomson twins, Thomson and Thompson - the P is silent, as in Philadelphia.

I read Hergé's Tintin comics as a kid, and later, to my kids (doing all the voices) - happy memories.

Groome's Gazetteer has 1890's maps showing parishes for every Scottish county at:
https://www.electricscotland.com/history/gazetteer/
In particular:
https://www.electricscotland.com/history/gazetteer/images/berwick.jpg



For a modern map:
https://www.streetmap.co.uk/
Do a Smart Search for: NT 7326 4230

Couldn't find a modern pic, but my guess is the cottage site is abt 50m past the corner at:
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4007120
NT7342 : Minor road near Hassington
Subject Location: NT 7328 4234 [10m precision]
View Direction: East-southeast (about 112 degrees)
[The inset map is streetmap's zoom level 4
The blue grid lines are 1 km apart]

https://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html#/
Enter the grid ref: NT 7326 4230
Select: 1893 1:2500 map
Hit the + a couple of times, and maybe the map window.
Click on square icon at top right margin to turn off blueing




One geographical quirk is that, in 1841, across the Tweed from Coldstream was a detached bit of Co Durham.
This can yield some apparent oddities on the 1841 census.
Although Berwick RD was in the registration county of Northumberland, none of it was in the usual county - it was all in Co Dyrham except Berwick, which was in the county of the City of Berwick.
These County of the City of X were almost all abolished in the latter part of the 19th cent.
The only survivor is the County of the City of London.

As well as Berwick RD, there were a few other detached bits of Co Durham scattered ariund Northumberland, but they were given to Northumberland in 1844.

https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/berwick.html

BERWICK REGISTRATION DISTRICT
Registration County : Northumberland.
Created : 1.7.1837.
Abolished : 1.1.1937 (to become part of Northumberland North First registration district).
Sub-districts : Berwick upon Tweed, Islandshire, Norhamshire, Norhamshire & Islandshire.
GRO volumes : XXV (1837-51), 10b (1852-1936).
Registers currently held at : Northumberland.

Table 1: List of Places in Berwick Registration District

Civil Parish County From To Comments
Kyloe Durham 1837 1844 Transferred from Durham to Northumberland on 20.10.1844. See also Table 2, note (a).
Kyloe Northumberland 1844 1936 Transferred from Durham to Northumberland on 20.10.1844. See also Table 2, note (a).
etc.

Groome's Gazetteer has 1890's maps showing parishes for every Scottish county at:
https://www.electricscotland.com/history/gazetteer/
In particular:
https://www.electricscotland.com/history/gazetteer/images/berwick.jpg


Burnhouse

For a modern map:
https://www.streetmap.co.uk/
Do a Smart Search for: NT 7326 4230

Couldn't find a modern pic, but my guess is the cottage site is abt 50m past the corner at:
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4007120
NT7342 : Minor road near Hassington
Subject Location: NT 7328 4234 [10m precision]
View Direction: East-southeast (about 112 degrees)
[The inset map is streetmap's zoom level 4
The blue grid lines are 1 km apart]

https://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html#/
Enter the grid ref: NT 7326 4230
Select: 1893 1:2500 map
Hit the + a couple of times, and maybe the map window.
Click on square icon at top right margin to turn off blueing




One geographical quirk is that, in 1841, across the Tweed from Coldstream was a detached bit of Co Durham.
This can yield some apparent oddities on the 1841 census.
Although Berwick RD was in the registration county of Northumberland, none of it was in the usual county - it was all in Co Dyrham except Berwick, which was in the county of the City of Berwick.
These County of the City of X were almost all abolished in the latter part of the 19th cent.
The only survivor is the County of the City of London.

As well as Berwick RD, there were a few other detached bits of Co Durham scattered ariund Northumberland, but they were given to Northumberland in 1844.

https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/berwick.html

BERWICK REGISTRATION DISTRICT
Registration County : Northumberland.
Created : 1.7.1837.
Abolished : 1.1.1937 (to become part of Northumberland North First registration district).
Sub-districts : Berwick upon Tweed, Islandshire, Norhamshire, Norhamshire & Islandshire.
GRO volumes : XXV (1837-51), 10b (1852-1936).
Registers currently held at : Northumberland.

Table 1: List of Places in Berwick Registration District

Civil Parish County From To Comments
Kyloe Durham 1837 1844 Transferred from Durham to Northumberland on 20.10.1844. See also Table 2, note (a).
Kyloe Northumberland 1844 1936 Transferred from Durham to Northumberland on 20.10.1844. See also Table 2, note (a).
etc.

True! :-)

Of course, the Thompson without the P may be just a mistake - or maybe he's some completely unrelated person. It's not an unusual name, in either spelling.
And we don't know the first name of the Marchmont servant.

Again, thank you ArgyllGran - I have just seen your other posts on page 1. That's really interesting - So John and Elizabeth were living in Burnhouse when my great-great grandfather was born, and it looks as if 3x Great Granddad was a servant too... interesting that the name was spelt with a 'P' as on all the other documentation I've seen there is no P! I well remember both my sister and I getting into the habit of saying 'Thomson without the P' when giving our name!

Thank you again! :-)

Thank you, ArgyllGran! That is really helpful! As an aside, I had a quick look at the first page and I had to smile... Baronet Blackadder!!! Wonderful!

Thanks again, very much appreciated X

Just for interest -

Robert and Abram Logan lived at Burnhouses in 1848:

https://tinyurl.com/vwu2jq2

In fact, if you Google "Marchmont, Burnhouse" there are lots of references.

Link to mention of "plan of the farm of Burnhouses", on the Marchmont Estate, Eccles.

https://tinyurl.com/rcm7slp

Dated 1777.
Apparently held in the National Records of Scotland.


Also this dated 1792:

https://tinyurl.com/wdcg96m
Plan of the farms of Burnhouses and Herdrig

I think Burnhouse was the name of the cottage where she lived.

"BURNHOUSE PLANTATION
A plantation which chiefly consist of beech and fir trees, extending for nearly a mile along the southern and steep banks of the Lambden Burn, from the boundary of the adjoining parish of Hume to ****** a small cottage called "Burnhouse" *****from which it has received its name. It is the property of Sir Hugh Campbell Bart, [Baronet] Marchmont and was planted by the late Colonel Murray, who, when a child was brought to the spot, where a spade and sapling was handed to him, which he put in the ground and planting the first tree. __"

These people are listed as "Authority for spelling";
******Mr. Thompson Marchmont. ****** Mr. Johnston Kennetsideheads Mr. Stevenson Schoolmaster. Eccles

https://tinyurl.com/ux9gsp2



Lambden Burn
Lambden Burn is a stream in Scotland. Lambden Burn is situated northeast of Leitholm.
https://mapcarta.com/17635692


Leitholm
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Leitholm (Scots: Leithowm)[1] is a village in the Scottish Borders area of Scotland, 4 miles (6.4 km) north-west of Coldstream, in the former county of Berwickshire.
Other places nearby include the Crosshall cross, Duns, **** Eccles, **** Ednam, Fogo, Greenlaw, Hume Castle, Polwarth, Westruther.


Leitholm is only about 3 miles away from Eccles.

I've had a look at John Thomson's birth record in 1820.
It doesn't say that Elizabeth was born in Burnhouses.

Burnhouses was her address at the time of John's birth.


Granted, at that time she probably hadn't moved far from her birthplace.

Eccles is about 6 miles NE of Kelso, and roughly about 8 miles as the crow flies S of Duns.

Wow, so many lovely people, thank you all! I'll try to answer in order:

ErikaH; thanks for the location info - I'll be heading back to Google Maps shortly! The birth year is an approximation, mainly from Ancestry records, but it's by no means certain as I was hoping for a birth record or a marriage record to help verify her parents! So it's a 'TBC' at the moment!

Kathleen Bell; Ah, that's a shame! I'm coming to the conclusion that John & Elizabeth never formally married... perhaps being a 'canny Scot' he/they didn't want to pay for a marriage license?! :-) (or couldn't afford to). Certainly it wasn't talked about that great-great grandfather was illegitimate, but I do remember my uncle saying that he started to research the family history and "found a skeleton in the closet" so he stopped! He would never say what it was, but I'm thinking that this may have been it... I will probably never know.

ArgyllGran; Yes, it could be that Elizabeth was a few years younger than John, but didn't admit to it, perhaps? It seems that many men married younger women... indeed another member of the same family (Thomson) married a man 25 years her senior - he had recently been widowed and had children, so I suspect it may not have been 'love' but practicality. For all that, the lady didn't live very much longer than her much older husband! :-(

Maddie: Thank you but I don't think this Elizabeth Chirnside is the one, as my ELizabeth's 'spouse' was John Thomson, not Logan. Unless she gave birth to son John in 1819 and then left the father of her child and married John Logan a few years later....? Possible I suppose, as I don't know if John Jnr has any siblings. I've not yet been able to verify the birth dates or places of John or Elizabeth, only their son John born 1819, baptised 1820 and died Feb 1887 is certainty. Which is why it is so frustrating that there appears to be no formal marriage. Even John Thomson Jnr's birthplace is given on census forms as 'Scotland'. It was the baptism of John Jnr which gave his mother Elizabeth's birthplace ('Elizabeth Chirnside of Burnhouses'). I guess I need to concentrate now on baptism records for Elizabeth Chirnside to see if Burnhouses pops up again... Knowing that John Jnr was born in Eccles narrows it down a bit!

elizabeth 1791 ????

Elizabeth
Last name Chirnside
Marriage year 1826
Marriage date 29 Jun 1826
Marriage place Coldingham,Berwick,Scotland
Spouse's first name(s) John
Spouse's last name Logan
Place Coldingham
County Berwickshire
Country Scotland
Father's first name(s) Thomas
Father's last name Chirnside
Spouse's father's first name(s) James
Spouse's father's last name Logan

OP suggests c1785 for the birth

Either of the first two Coldingham births posted by safc could be the right one - right area, anyway. (1791 or 1796)

If you have good factual reason to think that c1795 is correct for her birth, then the 1796 one might be it.

There's also a village called Chirnside between Duns and Coldingham - nearer to Duns than to Coldingham.


EDIT:
Oops, sorry - I misread the birth year . Elaine says 1785, not 1795.

There were quite a lot of "Irregular" marriages in the area at that time which will not be found in parish records.

I have a little book of Irregular Border Marriages advertised in the Berwick Advertiser and other border papers from 1808 to 1864.

There are 7 Chirnside marriages in it - all in Northumberland - but unfortunately there isn't one for Elizabeth Chirnside.

Kath. x

Burnhouse, is close to DUNS in Berwickshire, Scotland

Where did you find info about Elizabeth's birth year?

Or is it guesswork based on when she gave birth?

Ah... I saw the 'M' and thought it was the marriage!! I guess they never did marry then, at least not at that point... :-)

hi Elaine

that's john thomson

baptism 1820

not the marriage