Find Ancestors

But you already posted that on 6th Jan ??!

Hooray. The marriage cerrtificate arrived today and confirms what we have thought ie that Eveline Lizzie Worner, formerly Medlicott nee Freeman was born Elizabeth Freemen to father Charles Freeman a brewer..
Thank you everybody for your help.
regards
jennifer

Seems like Robert died soon after the marriage

Deaths Dec 1880
MEDLICOTT Robert 20 Rotherham 9c 335

Wow. I think you've cracked it! Once the cert arrives it hopefully will confirm the connection. Thanks so much for your time.
Regards
Jen

Wow. I think you've cracked it! Once the cert arrives it hopefully will confirm the connection. Thanks so much for your time.
Regards
Jen

In case that Elizabeth is the right one -

her parents' marriage:

Margaret Hartshorn
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Margaret Hartshorn
Gender: Female
Age: 20
Birth Date: 1841
Marriage Date: 1861
Marriage Place: West Bromwich, Stafford, Eng.
Father: Job Hartshorn
Spouse: Charles Freeman
FHL Film Number: 1526219
Reference ID: 2:3QQ0WSH


And therefore Elizabeth's birth:

FREEMAN, ELIZABETH mms HARTSHORN
GRO Reference: 1862 J Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06C Page 41

With Smethwick in mind, there's this family in 1871:

Elizabeth Freeman
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Freeman
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: 1863
Relation: Daughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Tipton Staffordshire England
Civil Parish: Harborne
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Smethwick
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Kings Norton
Sub-registration district: Harborne
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Household schedule number: 83
Piece: 3088
Folio: 65
Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Freeman 28 - drayman, railway station.
Margaret Freeman 30
Elizabeth Freeman 8
Margaret Freeman 3
Esther Freeman 1


Draymen were mainly in the pub/brewing trade.


Elizabeth isn't with them in 1881:

Charles Freeman
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Charles Freeman
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relationship to Head: Son in Law
Spouse: Margaret Freeman
Gender: Male
Where born: Droitwich, Worcestershire, England
Civil Parish: Sedgley
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: 109 High St
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: General Labourer Unemployed
Registration district: Dudley
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Neighbors:
Piece: 2871
Folio: 36
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
Job. Hartshorne 68
Mary Hartshorne 62
Jessie Hartshorne 19
Charles Freeman 39
Margaret Freeman 39
Esther Freeman 11
Fanny Freeman 9
George Freeman 7
Ada Freeman 5
Charles Freeman 3
Mary Jane Freeman 1

Maybe saying her father was a brewer was a flight of fancy - sounded better than an unemployed general labourer.

Re the Robert Medlicott/Elizabeth Freeman marriage posted by Erika (I assume that's the one you're sending for) -

the banns record says Robert was "of Holy Trinity, Smethwick" and Elizabeth was "of this parish" - ie - Hampton in Arden.

Bachelor and spinster.

I've also hunted for them in 1881 with no luck.

ErikaH. I think that could be the one I need. People did juggle their Christian names in those days. I'm sending for that marriage cert to be sure. Thanks for your help.
Regards
Jennifer

If that Charles Freeman isn't on the 1861 census, it's unlikely (though not impossible, I suppose - maybe he managed to avoid the census-taker) that he's the father of a child born in 1863.

The tree owner doesn't know anything about Eveline's parents.

The only Charles Freeman born 1842/3 in Droitwich appears on the 1851 census with his family who were salt makers. After that the family disappeared from later census. A I wonder if they went abroad. Unlikely but not impossible.

Thanks for that. But we still don't know where the mystery daughter came from and maybe we never will - unless someone else in that tree knows.

George Gear was a gardener - so either a friend, or else someone dragged in to be a witness.

George Gear
in the 1881 England Census
Name: George Gear
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Elizabeth Gear
Gender: Male
Where born: E Coker, Somerset, England
Civil Parish: Yeovil
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Street address: No 95 Park Street
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Gardener Domestic Serv
Registration district: Yeovil
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors:
Piece: 2393
Folio: 37
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
George Gear 32
Elizabeth Gear 33
Alice M. Gear 9
Arthur G. Gear 7
Nellie P. Gear 6
Bessie A. Gear 4
Annie M. Gear

Henry Vincent Rodber was an accountant in 1891 and 1901, though only an apprentice in 1881. In 1911 he was a clerk in Union office.

He didn't marry until 1922, and died in 1933. No children.
I don't think he's related to either Eveline or Albert.

Only posting 1891 as example;

Henry V Rodber
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Henry V Rodber
Gender: Male
Age: 28
Relationship: Brother
Birth Year: 1863
Mother: Matilda H Rodber
Birth Place: Yeovil, Somerset, England
Civil Parish: Yeovil
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Residence Place: Yeovil, Yeovil, Somerset, England
Registration district: Yeovil
Sub registration district: Yeovil
ED, Institution or Vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Piece: 1898
Folio: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
John E Rodber 38
Martyn V H Rodber 7
Andrey C Rodber 7
Matilda H Rodber 63
Henry V Rodber 28
Lydia Morris 17

henrys father was the supt of registers so he probably assisted as a witness

Hello Rose. The witnesses ere George GEAR and either Henry or Terry VINCENT RODBER.

regards

Jennifer

Who were the witnesses?

Rose

No, not so far!

Can't see a Charles Freeman, brewer, in Droitwich area 1861-71

Can't see a Charles Freeman, brewer, born 1837 +/- 10 years, anywhere at all in 1881.

The closest in occupation is a licensed victualler in London, born Cambridgeshire, but he's nowhere near Droitwich or Somerset in any census.


It's possible she didn't know who her father was, and invented one.

Happy New Year Ladies!
I Now have the marriage certificate of Albert Worner aged 35 years a butcher bachelor (son of John Worner deceased) and Eveline Lizzie Medlicott aged 23 (pinster crossed out) widow (daughter of Charles Freeman a brewer.
Eveline has signed her name Eveline Lizzie Freeman (crossed out) Medlicott
Both lived at Martock (no further address details.
On 13th August 1885 at Crist Church Yeovil.
Does this help in finding out where this lady originated from?
regards,
jennifer