Find Ancestors

Maybe a possible marriage??

Elsie M Watkins
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Elsie M Watkins
Registration Date: Jul 1943
[Aug 1943]
[Sep 1943]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Pontypridd
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Spouse: Frank E Middleton
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 1107



Frank Edward Middleton
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Frank Edward Middleton
Death Age: 75
Birth Date: 18 Mar 1894
Registration Date: Jul 1969
[Aug 1969]
[Sep 1969]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Pontypridd
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 8b
Page: 2489


EDIT:

No, I suspect this is his wife's death, in which case she's not the right Elsie:

Elsie Maud Middleton
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Elsie Maud Middleton
Death Age: 74
Birth Date: 25 Nov 1896
Registration Date: Jan 1971
[Feb 1971]
[Mar 1971]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Pontypridd
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 8b
Page: 3071



By coincidence, Deborah's friend's Elsie's middle name was Maud:

WATKINS, ELSIE MAUD GOLDSWORTHY
GRO Reference: 1911 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 625

It may help others if Deborah could some idea when her friends mother was born and where please to give an idea of what age Ivy may have been?

There’s no record for Elsie marrying a Keeping /s

1911 for them. Married 12 years, 10 living children, 2 died.

Name: Hannah M Walkins
Age in 1911: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1897
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Pontypridd, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: Pontypridd
Search Photos: Search for 'Pontypridd' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 7 New House Daggrag St Ponly Pridd Glamorgan
Marital status: Single
Registration district: Pontypridd
Registration District Number: 589
Sub-registration district: Llantrisant
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Household schedule number: 225
Piece: 32319
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Walkins 36
Emma Walkins 36
Thomas J Walkins 16
Hannah M Walkins 14
Elizabeth A Walkins 12
Walter Walkins 11
Gladys Walkins 8
Griffith Walkins 7
Doris Walkins 2

Written in : twins not registered, under 1 month.


and 1901


Name: Thos Watkins
Age in 1901: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation: Head
Spouse: Emma J Watkins
Gender: Male
Where born: Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: Pridd
Search Photos: Search for 'Pridd' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: Glyn Taf
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub-registration district: Eglwysilan
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 149
Piece: 4999
Folio: 43
Page Number: 25
Household Members:
Name Age
Thos Watkins 26
Emma J Watkins 25 Blackwood, Monmouthshire,
Thos J Watkins 6
Hannah M Watkins 4
Elizth A Watkins 2

Siblings:

WATKINS, HANNAH MARIA GOLDSWORTHY
GRO Reference: 1896 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 571

WATKINS, THOMAS JOHN GOLDSWORTHY
GRO Reference: 1895 M Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 573

WATKINS, WALTER GOLDSWORTHY
GRO Reference: 1901 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 509

WATKINS, ELIZABETH ANN GOLDSWORTHY
GRO Reference: 1899 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 488

WATKINS, GLADYS MAY GOLDSWORTHY
GRO Reference: 1902 S Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 619

WATKINS, PHOEBE GOLDSWORTHY
GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in PONTY PRIDD Volume 11A Page 584

WATKINS, GRIFFITH GOLDSWORTHY
GRO Reference: 1904 S Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 594

WATKINS, IVOR GOLDSWORTHY
GRO Reference: 1910 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 567

WATKINS, DOROTHY GOLDSWORTHY
GRO Reference: 1909 M Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 601


The twins seem to have been the last straw - no more births after that!

However, I don't seethe family in 1901 or 1911 censuses.

Maybe these are the right twins?

Born in Wales, although not Neath, and no middle initial for Ivy, as per marriage and 1939:

Births Jun 1911 (>99%)
Watkins Ivy Pontypridd 11a 625
Watkins Elsie M Pontypridd 11a 625

Mother's maiden name Goldsworthy.


Possible marriage of parents:

Marriages Mar 1894 (>99%)
Goldsworthy Emma Pontypridd 11a 702 S
Watkins Thomas John Pontypridd 11a 702

If you think the 1932 marriage for Ivy to Alfred Keeping is the right one, then it might be an idea to buy a copy of the cert to find out her parents' names.

Oh dear!
It doesn't look as if your Ivy is the one born in Islington 1912 after all.

This may be the death of that one:

Ivy M Watkins
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Ivy M Watkins
Estimated birth year: abt 1912
Registration Year: 1913
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 1
Registration district: Islington
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1b
Page: 223


Back to the drawing board.

No, you'd have to buy the death cert to find that out.

Alice was also in the workhouse infirmary in 1912, along with her sister Ivy.

Alice R Watkins
in the London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1930
Name: Alice R Watkins
Discharge Age: 7/12
Record Type: Discharge
Birth Date: abt 1912
Discharge Date: 25 Sep 1912
Discharge Place: Islington, Islington, London, England


They are Alice Rose, and Ivy Maud

thats sad! Is there anything saying what Alice died of?

thats sad! Is there anything saying what Alice died of?

Possible siblings of the twins born in Islington - though now doubtful, as there seems to be no sign of a sister other than Alice who died in infancy:

Births Jun 1913 (>99%)
Watkins Henry C West Islington 1b 323

Births Jun 1914 (>99%)
WATKINS Robert W West Islington 1b 284

Births Dec 1918 (>99%)
Watkins Victor West Islington 1b 192

Ah -

this looks like the Alice R who was born in 1912:

Alice R Watkins
in the London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1930
Name: Alice R Watkins
Admission Age: 1
Record Type: Admission
Birth Date: abt 1912
Admission Date: 2 Apr 1913
Admission Place: Islington, Islington, London, England

Alice R Watkins
in the London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1930
Name: Alice R Watkins
Discharge Age: 1
Record Type: Discharge
Birth Date: abt 1912
Discharge Date: 1 Apr 1913
Discharge Place: Islington, Islington, London, England


Alice R Watkins
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Alice R Watkins
Estimated birth year: abt 1912
Registration Year: 1913
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 1
Registration district: Islington
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1b
Page: 207

Ivy went to Bermondsey at somepoint, maybe to be working in service???

With Alfred Thomas:

Ivy Keeping
in the Sutton, Surrey, England, Electoral Registers, 1931-1970
Name: Ivy Keeping
Gender: Female
Year: 1937
Parliamentary Division: Carshalton, Surrey, England
House Number: 6 Sibton Road
Reference Number: 046

Thank you.
I know my friend said she had died young.
do you see any siblings please?

Ivy may, however, have died in Neath:

Ivy Keeping
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Ivy Keeping
Death Age: 28
Birth Date: abt 1912
Registration Date: Jan 1940
[Feb 1940]
[Mar 1940]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Neath
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 1737

You'd need to buy a copy of the cert to check the other details - names of father and/or husband, and exact DOD

If those are the right births I posted, then they weren't born in Wales.

The earliest birth of an Ivy Watkins in Neath is in 1922 - too young to be marrying in 1932.

ArgyllGran Yes thats the ones :) Thank you. and Elsie her sister is also beleived to have married Keeping too. I also need , if possible Death records for Ivy.
The sisters were born in Neath Port Talbot area, in South Wales.
Ihad a daugnter, out of wedlock, my friends Mother.
There is no father named on the birth certificate and also there is no
where I can find a D.O.D for Ivy although

Ivy's is the only Watkins/Keeping marriage I can see. on FreeBMD