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Argyll Gran and SylvainCanada

Thank you so much for all your help

It is very much appreciated

Linda

Linda ...............

I did check the Convict records yesterday ......... I couldn't find a James Hindley Bates, but lots of James Bates :-(

None of those seemed to fit place of sentence, age or date of transport.

He seems to appear and then disappear very quickly.

I didn't find a child of that marriage.

Possible ???

James Bate
in the England & Wales, Non-Conformist and Non-Parochial Registers, 1567-1970
Name: James Bate
Birth Date: abt 1811
Event Type: Burial
Death Date: abt 1834
Death Age: 23
Burial Date: 16 Oct 1834
Burial Place: Salford, Lancashire, England
Denomination: New Jerusalemite
Piece Title: Piece 1287: Salford, Bolton Street, Jerusalem Temple (New Jerusalemite), 1834-1837

But maybe not, as the Bate/Whittle marriage was in the Church of England.

i dont suppose there would be a way of finding out if he went to Australia or not.

I have been looking for a death for james hindley bates before ann whittle marries william dall but no luck

linda

Ancestry has one record of the criminal case ...... he was charged with "Uttering False Coin".

Several others were charged with the same offence.


and several entries regarding the Prosecutor getting paid.



I wonder if he was not actually transported??

This is the only other reference to a James Hindley Bate in BMDs on ancestry

Cheshire, England, Parish Registers, 1538-1909

Name: James Hindley Bate
Gender: Male
Record Type: Christening (Baptism)
Baptism Date: 21 Jul 1811
Baptism Place: Witton-cum-Twambrooks, Cheshire, England
Residence Place: Witton-cum-Twambrooks, Cheshire, England
Father: Thos. Bate
Mother: Elizth. Bate


Plus the criminal record in 1829.

lancs opc shows the church for Ann Whittle's first marriage

Marriage: 10 Feb 1834 St Mary the Virgin, Eccles, Lancashire, England
James Hindley Bate - this Parish
Ann Whittle - this Parish
Witness: Thomas Gorse; Joseph Barrett, (X)
Married by Banns by: Wm. MacIvor Curate
Register: Marriages 1833 - 1834, Page 160, Entry 478
Source: Microfilm held at Manchester Central Library


The image of the church register can be seen on Ancestry ............

no names of family members, married by Banns, both signed their names in the Register, both "of this Parish.

argyllgran

i had spotted that as well bu t like you i looked at the date of the bates/whittle wedding and they didnt match up

thank you

???
Presumably not Ann Whittle's husband, unless his sentence was shortened, but thought I'd post it anyway, just in case.:

James Hindley Bate
in the England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892
Name: James Hindley Bate
Date of Trial: Apr 1829
Trial Year: 1829
Location of Trial: Lancashire, England
Sentence: Transportation

7 years, for fraud


I don't see Ann's husband's death.

Birth Cert. would be needed...(to be sure)

Chris :)

so the charles dall born 1843 in preston with mothers surname whittle

is the son of william dall and ann bates maiden name whittle

Ann Whittle
England Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: James Hindley Bate
Spouse's Name: Ann Whittle
Event Date: 10 Feb 1834
Event Place: Eccles, Lancaster, England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M01394-8


Ann Bate married William Dall in Eccles.

John Wesley Dall, Father of William Dall, 1846 Marriage reference, would be the Father of above as well, looking at Newspaper reference.

(his occ. Tailor as 1841)

Chris :)

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

(searching above, using John Wesley Dall as Father, brings up other siblings)

Brilliant. Now it looks like its tying up at last

Ann Whittle married someone called Bates then she became a widow and married William Dall and then she died 1844.

Is that a strong possibility

Linda

?? Death:

DALL, ANN 33
GRO Reference: 1844 J Quarter in THE PRESTON UNION Volume 21 Page 414


It doesn't solve the Dall/Whittle problem, though

There is below...(Dall, Whittle)

Chris :)

30 January 1835 - Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser

MARRIED
On Monday last, at Eccles Church, near Manchester, by the Rev. Thomas Blackburne, vicar. Mr. William Dall, third son of J. W. Dall, Esq., to Mrs. Ann Bate, youngest daughter of Mr. Thomas Whittle, of Samlesbury, near Preston.


Marriage: 26 Jan 1835 St Mary the Virgin, Eccles, Lancashire, England
William Dall - this parish
Anne Bate - this parish
Witness: Thomas Gorse; John Lyndley?
Married by Banns by: Thos. Blackburne Vicar
Register: Marriages 1835, Page 11, Entry 32
Source: Manchester Central Library


1841
William Dall Male 25 1816 Lancashire, England (Tailor)
Ann Dall Female 25 1816 Lancashire, England
Marian Dall Female 4 1837 Lancashire, England
William Banning Male 85 1756 Lancashire, England
Pole Street, Preston, Lancashire

There isn't one before the birth.

Nor afterwards, as far as I can see.

This is NOT it - John Hartley Dall married Dorothy Anne Blackburn, per later censuses.:

Marriages Mar 1849 (>99%)
Billington Thomas Preston 21 449
Blackburn Dorothy Anne Preston 21 449
Bowling James Preston 21 449
Dall John Hartley Preston 21 449 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Earnshaw Henry Preston 21 449
Ellens Frances Preston 21 449
Walbank Elizabeth Preston 21 449
Whittle Mary Ann Preston 21 449 <<<<<<<<<<<<


Nothing on Lancs BMD either.

could Charles Dall be a son of William Dall before he married Alice Edwards ?

They were both widowers

making Alice stepmother to Charles Dall

so if I find a Dall /Whittle marriage that might solve it ???

how strange
can't see him on any census or a death to rule him out

Lancashire BMD


Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1843
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Sub-District Registers At Reference
DALL Charles WHITTLE Preston Preston PRES/23/18