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I am trying to find maiden name of Lily, born c1878 - married to George Hill born 1875 Staffordshire.

1911 census shows them both living 106 Raglan Street, Fenton, Staffordshire with child George Hill.

Lily showing as born Falmouth, Cornwall. Marriage according to census should be around 1896 but I am at a loss trying to research her maiden name to get the marriage details. Any help welcome

Can we assume you’ve looked at freebmd for a marriage between George Hill and a Lily?

Alternative is to look for the son’s birth on the GRO site, where MMN is given

For our reference:

Lily Hill
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Lily Hill
Age in 1911: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Falmouth, Cornwall
Civil Parish: Fenton
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: 106 Raglan Street, Fenton, Stoke On Trent
Marital status: Married
Years Married: 15
Estimated Marriage Year: 1896
Registration district: Stoke upon Trent
Registration District Number: 361
Sub-registration district: Fenton
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 16
Piece: 16583
Household Members:
Name Age
George Hill 36
Lily Hill 33
William Hill 14 - Fenton


[ Son is William, not George]


Son William in 1901:

William H Hill
in the 1901 England Census
Name: William H Hill
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1897
Relation to Head: Grandson
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Fenton, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Fenton
Ecclesiastical parish: Fenton Christchurch
Town: Fenton
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Stoke upon Trent
Sub-registration district: Fenton
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors:
Piece: 2612
Folio: 143
Page Number: 11
Household schedule number: 68
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Hill 50
Matilda Hill 49
Elizabeth Hill 23
Rupert Hill 21
William H Hill 19
Lydia A Hill 18
Eliza Hill 17
Ruth Hill 14
Matilda Hill 10
Alfred Hill 6
William H Hill 4


Birth of son William ????


HILL, WILLIAM HENRY mms HAMMONDS
GRO Reference: 1896 S Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 259


Parents' marriage:

Marriages Dec 1895 (>99%)
Hammonds Mary Ann Stoke T. 6b 341
Hill George Thomas Stoke T. 6b 341


Per 1911 census, George and Lily had been married for 15 years, which would fit the above marriage.


Could Lily just be what Mary Ann liked to be called?

But there are loads of Mary Ann Hammonds born in Staffordshire - and none in Falmouth. Or maybe Falmouth is a mistake on the census ???





George is George T in 1891 with his parents and siblings;

George T Hill
in the 1891 England Census
Name: George T Hill
Gender: Male
Age: 16
Relationship: Son
Birth Year: 1875
Father: Alfred Hill
Mother: Matilda Hill
Birth Place: Stoke Upon Trent; Fenton
Civil Parish: Stoke upon Trent
Residence Place: Fenton, Stoke upon Trent, Staffordshire, England
Sub registration district: Fenton
ED, Institution or Vessel: 13
Neighbors:
Piece: 2179
Folio: 124
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Hill 40
Matilda Hill 39
Mary A Hill 18
George T Hill 16
Elizabeth Hill 13
Rupert Hill 12
William H Hill 10
Lydia A Hill 8
Eliza Hill 7
Nellis Hill 5
Ruth Hill 4
Matilda Hill 7/12

I can't see George and either Lily or Mary Ann in 1901.

FOR ELIMINATION ONLY:

this is NOT the same family:

George Hill
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: George Hill
Gender: Male
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 16 Jul 1876
Residence Year: 1939
Address: Bonnington
Residence Place: Walsall, Staffordshire, England
Occupation: Dairy Clerk
Schedule Number: 39
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: OOOY
Registration district: 370/2
Inferred Spouse: Lillie Hill
Inferred Children: Lillie R Hill
Household Members:
Name
George Hill
Lillie Hill
Howard J Hill
Lillie R Hill
Julia R Hill

That Lillie's ms was Tooth.
She and that George married in 1903 and are together in 1911 census.

Confirmation that George Hill - parents are definitely William Hill and Thirza Newman.

1891 census shows George Hill at 59 Mellville Street, Hanley, Staffordshire.

I did find a Marriage possible -

Lily Chiver, Somerset - date of marriage 1893 5 a 1096, pg 54

1911 census definately states William is son of George and is 3yrs of age.

Martin, William is not 3 on the 1911 census, as posted above he is 14.

I can't see the marriage you refer to? oh yes I can but it is Chivers not Chiver

Marriages Dec 1893 (>99%)
Chivers Lily Bath 5c 1096
Hill George Bath 5c 1096

Child?

HILL, WILLIAM CHIVERS
GRO Reference: 1897 D Quarter in BRISTOL Volume 06A Page 23

You could buy the marriage cert to see if George's father matches?

Are you quite sure you've got the right 1911 for your George?

George in 1911 was born in Fenton, not Hanley (yes, I know they're both parts of Stoke on Trent).
Lily in 1911 was born in Falmouth, not Bath.
William in 1911 was born in Fenton, not Bristol.

It seems like a lot of wrong info on the census if that's your George.

Lily Chivers's birth:

CHIVERS, LILY mms LINES
GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in BATH Volume 05C Page 594

Marriages Sep 1877 (>99%)
CHIVERS Joshua Bath 5c 964
LINES Eliza Bath 5c 964

Lilly Chivers
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Lilly Chivers
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relationship to Head: Daughter
Father: Joshua Chivers
Mother: Eliza Chivers
Gender: Female
Where born: Radstock, Somerset, England
Civil Parish: Radstock
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Street address: Butler Buildings
Registration district: Clutton
ED, institution, or vessel: 10b
Neighbors:
Piece: 2429
Folio: 69
Page Number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
Joshua Chivers 26
Eliza Chivers 23
Lilly Chivers 3
Albert Chivers 1

EDIT:
No, that can't be the same Lily who married George Hill. [ ADDED: But also see next post - Lily Chivers didn't marry George Hill ]

Lily Chivers
in the Somerset, England, Marriage Registers, Bonds and Allegations, 1754-1914
Name: Lily Chivers
Gender: Female
Age: 22
Birth Year: abt 1879
Marriage or Bann Date: 8 Apr 1901
Marriage Place: Radstock, Somerset, England
Parish as it Appears: Radstock
Father: Jorlma [Joshua ] Chivers
Spouse: Frederick Denning

The 1893 marriage, again:

Lily Chivers
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Lily Chivers
Registration Year: 1893
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Bath
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume: 5c
Page: 1096
Records on Page:
Name
Lily Chivers
Walter Frank Hemmens
George Hill
Emmeline Kate Pope


For one thing, if Lily in 1911 is the same person, she would only have been c15 at marriage. Not impossible, I suppose.

But anyway, it was Walter Hemmens who married Lily Chivers:

Walter Frank Hemmens
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Walter Frank Hemmens
Age in 1911: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire
Civil Parish: Kingswood
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Street address: 20 Kimberley Rd, St, Kingswood, Bristol
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Boot Trade Clicker
Registration district: Keynsham
Registration District Number: 317
Sub-registration district: Kingswood
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 263
Piece: 14761
Household Members:
Name Age
Walter Frank Hemmens 42
Lily Hemmens 38 - born Tunly, Somerset, c1873.
Gladys Lilian Hemmens 12
Horace Walter Hemmens 6


George Hill married Emmeline Pope:

Emmeline Kate Hill
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Emmeline Kate Hill
Age in 1911: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Frome, Somerset
Civil Parish: Bath
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Street address: 14 Norfolk Crescent, Bath
Marital status: Widowed
Occupation: Bork Keeper
Registration district: Bath
Registration District Number: 316
Sub-registration district: Walcot
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Household schedule number: 360
Piece: 14724
Household Members:
Name Age
Emmeline Kate Hill 36
Richard Geoffrey Hill 14
Jessie Jones 29

Just to go back a bit

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Nelson Place, Hanley, Stoke upon Trent, Staffordshire & Worcestershire, England

George Hill Head - Male 46 1825 - Staffordshire, England
Ann Hill Wife - Female 45 1826 - Staffordshire, England
William Hill Son - Male 20 1851 - Staffordshire, England <<<<
Thirza Hill Daughter-In-Law - Female 20 1851 - Lancashire, England <<<<<<<
Martha Hill Daughter - Female 15 1856 - Staffordshire, England
Alice Hill Daughter - Female - - - Staffordshire, England
Eliza Hill Daughter - Female 9 1862 - Staffordshire, England
Emily Hill Daughter - Female 6 1865 - Staffordshire, England
George Hill Son - Male 3 1868 - Staffordshire, England

Then in 1881

7, Nelson Place, Stoke upon Trent, Staffordshire, England


George Hill Head Married Male 56 1825 Engine Tenter Hanley, Staffordshire, England
Ann Hill Wife Married Female 55 1826 - Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
William Hill Son Married Male 30 1851 Engine Tenter Hanley, Staffordshire, England <<<<
George Hill Grand Son Single Male 6 1875 Scholar Hanley, Staffordshire, England <<<<<<
Sarah Ann Oakley Lodger Single Female 17 1864 Potter Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire, England

Going back to Mary Ann Hill, nee Hammonds -

Maybe she died and then her husband took up with Lily Somebody ??

Deaths Mar 1899 (>99%)
Hill Mary Ann 24 Stoke T. 6b 166

An 1899 death would explain why I can't find her in 1901. (Though wouldn't explain the stated 15 years of marriage for George and Lily - and still can't find Fenton George in 1901.)



However, I think that 1911 with George and Lily is a red herring - I don't think that's your Hanley George.

This looks like your Hanley George in 1901 - if so, he's not the one who'd been married for 15 years to Lily by 1911:

George Hill
in the 1901 England Census
Name: George Hill
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relation to Head: Visitor
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Hanley, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Wednesfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Wednesfield St Thomas
Town: Wednesfield
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Wolverhampton
Sub-registration district: Willenhall
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Neighbors:
Piece: 2687
Folio: 85
Page Number: 32
Household schedule number: 188
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Hill 29
Annie Hill 27
Alfred Hill 1
George Hill 25 - single, Minton tile fixer, slater.

Or have you found your George somewhere else in 1901?

Thirza in 1881

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
10, Stanley Terrace Bridge Road, Wavertree, West Derby, Lancashire, England

William Charlwood Head Married Male 42 1839 Cab Owner Cab Proprietor Essex, England
Sarah Jane Charlwood Wife Married Female 33 1848 - Stafford, Staffordshire, England
William Percy Hill Adopted Son Single Male 8 1873 Scholar Stafford, Staffordshire, England
George Hill Brother In Law Single Male 13 1868 Scholar Stafford, Staffordshire, England
Thirza Hill Sister In Law Married Female 30 1851 - Stafford, Staffordshire, England
Frederic Hill Nephew Single Male 3 1878 - Stafford, Staffordshire, England
Charlwood Hill Nephew Single Male 0 1881 - Stafford, Staffordshire, England

for ref HILL, CHARLWOOD mmn NEWMAN
GRO Reference: 1880 S Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 221

Below is Burial for 1899...

Chris :)

County Staffordshire
Place Fenton
Church name Cemetery
Register type Other Register
Register entry number 4128
Burial date 25 Feb 1899
Burial person forename Mary Ann
Relationship wife of
Male relative forename George Thomas
Relative surname HILL
Burial person surname HILL
Person age 24
Burial person abode 79 High St

https://www.freereg.org.uk/

(from above, another can be useful Staffs is below)

http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/index.php


Marriages Dec 1895 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------
Hammonds Mary Ann Stoke T. 6b 341
Hill George Thomas Stoke T. 6b 341


(Marriage image, Fenton, for above on FMP. George, 20 Bachelor, occ. Potter, 99, Raglan Street, Father, Alfred, occ. Potter. Mary Ann 21, Spinster, 2, Nelson Sreet, Father, William Hill (Deceased) occ. Miner. Wits. Samuel Hammond, Emily Hammond)


Staffordshire Birth indexes for the years: 1897
HILL William Henry HAMMONDS Fenton Stoke-On-Trent FEN/053/030


(if below)

County Staffordshire
Place Stoke-upon-Trent
Church name St Peter ad Vincula
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 1432
Birth date 19 Mar 1875
Baptism date 04 Apr 1875
Person forename George Thomas
Person sex M
Father forename Alfred
Mother forename Matilda
Father surname HILL
Person abode Heron Cross
Father occupation Thrower


Marriages Dec 1870 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------
COOPER Matilda Stoke T. 6b 277
HILL Alfred Stoke T. 6b 277


Staffordshire Birth indexes for the years: 1875
Hill George Thomas COOPER Fenton Stoke-On-Trent FEN/025/027


(below, if relating to George and Business, as 1911 Census)

07 March 1908 - Staffordshire Sentinel - Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire,

BUSINESSES AND PREMISES.
FISH and Chip Business For Disposal; good position. —Apply, 106. Raglan-st., Fenton.


22 August 1913 - Staffordshire Sentinel - Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire,

Businesses and Premises.
FISH and Chip Shop, 106. Raglan.street, Fenton. fixtures cheap. - Apply. .41, Spring Rd., Normacot.

No time to research further, but there is below...(if William 1911)

Chris :)

https://www.wrecksite.eu/peopleView.aspx?35527

(William Henry Hill)


(from image on below FMP, says Born 29th May 1896 Stoke on Trent, occ. Steam Hammer Driver)

British Royal Navy Seamen 1899-1924


(and below, for reference William and Thirza)

County Staffordshire
Place Shelton
Church name St Mark
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 501
Baptism date 21 Nov 1877
Person forename George
Father forename William
Mother forename Thirza
Father surname HILL
Person abode 29 Broom St, Hanley
Father occupation Engineer

(also relating)

Frederick HILL Baptism 21 Nov 1877 Staffordshire Shelton : St Mark : Parish Register

William Percy HILL Baptism 19 Jan 1873 Staffordshire Shelton : St Mark : Parish Register

Staffordshire Birth indexes for the years: 1873
HILL William Percy NEWMAN Shelton Stoke-On-Trent SHE/050/006


Staffordshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1870
NEWMAN Thyrza HILL William Shelton, St Mark Stoke-On-Trent 27/06/076.

Just to recap -

Martin's George is the one born in Hanley, son of William Hill and Thirza Newman.
So far, I don't see him after 1901.

Apparently Martin can't either, which is why he has hoped that the George who is with Lily in 1911 is his man.

I am convinced that 1911 George is George Thomas Hill, chip shop owner, born in Fenton, son of Alfred and Matilda, husband of Mary Ann Hammonds.

Lily, whoever she is, is a red herring.

Possible death of Martin's George ??

Deaths Jun 1905 (>99%)
Hill George 30 Stoke T. 6b 101

Thanks guys for your help. its all very confusing.

Yes I can now see that william Hill was 14 on the 1911 census and not 3 as I had thought.

The dates do match up that this George is the correct one at 106 Raglan St.

ArgyllGran - you said Lily is a red herring. I only have access to the records on this site and I am unable to find a marriage certificate between George and Lily.

:-(

So you are following below George...

Chris :)

(posted earlier)

Marriages Dec 1895 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------
Hammonds Mary Ann Stoke T. 6b 341
Hill George Thomas Stoke T. 6b 341


(Marriage image, Fenton, for above on FMP. George, 20 Bachelor, occ. Potter, 99,
Raglan Street, Father, Alfred, occ. Potter. Mary Ann 21, Spinster, 2, Nelson Sreet, Father, William Hill (Deceased) occ. Miner. Wits. Samuel Hammond, Emily Hammond)


Baptism
County Staffordshire
Place Stoke-upon-Trent
Church name St Peter ad Vincula
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 1432
Birth date 19 Mar 1875
Baptism date 04 Apr 1875
Person forename George Thomas
Person sex M
Father forename Alfred
Mother forename Matilda
Father surname HILL
Person abode Heron Cross
Father occupation Thrower


Staffordshire Birth indexes for the years: 1897
HILL William Henry HAMMONDS Fenton Stoke-On-Trent FEN/053/030


Who, or how, are you linking to George 1911?...(you stated below earlier)

Confirmation that George Hill - parents are definitely William Hill and Thirza Newman.

(I posted below earlier)

Baptism
County Staffordshire
Place Shelton
Church name St Mark
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 501
Baptism date 21 Nov 1877
Person forename George
Father forename William
Mother forename Thirza
Father surname HILL
Person abode 29 Broom St, Hanley
Father occupation Engineer

(also relating)

Frederick HILL Baptism 21 Nov 1877 Staffordshire Shelton : St Mark : Parish Register

William Neroman HILL Baptism 26 Feb 1870 Staffordshire Hanley : St Luke : Parish Register

William Percy HILL Baptism 19 Jan 1873 Staffordshire Shelton : St Mark : Parish Register

Staffordshire Birth indexes for the years: 1873
HILL William Percy NEWMAN Shelton Stoke-On-Trent SHE/050/006


https://www.freereg.org.uk/

http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/

(Find My Past, Genes, have a lot of Staffs. Records also)

Yes William P, Frederick and Bertram are Georges brothers

If it's George, the son of William and Thirza that you're interested in, Martin, I believe that's his 1905 death I've posted. (Though of course you'd have to see the certificate to be sure.)

There's certainly no sign of him on censuses after 1901.

He's the George with brothers William P, Fred, and Bertram.

I said Lily was a red herring because she's with a completely different George Hill - ie - George Thomas Hill, son of Alfred and Matilda - and therefore not relevant to your search.

Can you clarify definitely , please - which George is the one you're researching?