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Sorry mgnv, don’t see where this fits with my thread.

FS does not have a film for Longsight, St. John.
Mamchester Archives does have it, though

https://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/448/archives_and_local_history

https://secure.manchester.gov.uk/directory_record/211381/st_john_longsight/category/795/l-n

A bit of a surprise was that although the church opened in 1846, and baptisms & burials date back back to 1846, but marrs only date back to 1852.

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1852
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
KITCHEN Joseph S SWINNERTON Helen M Longsight, St. John Archives+, Manchester Central Library 80/1/1

Marriages Jun 1852 (>99%)
Kitchen Joseph Sidney Chorlton 8c 556a
Swinnerton Helen Minor Chorlton 8c 556a

One can tell from the local ref - 80/1/1 - that this is the index record for church 80, register 1, entry 1.
LancsBMD decodes church 80 to Longsight, St. John.


https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5557654
SJ8695 : St John's, Longsight
Subject Location! SJ 8661 9559 [10m precision]

------------------

I checked the TV schedule in the paper, and Call The Midwife is on Know @ 8. The opening shots show a liner sailing past the end of a street in Poplar, and this always reminds me of a similar episode 50y ago, My father-in-law to be rented a mill in Warrington, and when I was up there, and my wife to be was spending time with her mum, her dad might take me to Warrington. One time we were almost at the mill, and just down the road was a cargo ship sailing on the ship canal.

You got that right Chris ... definitely a needle in a haystack??
Think I will order that certificate ... can’t hurt I guess.
Thanks.

It would have his Birth Cert. and 1873 Marriage...

Not easy Surname, Roberts from Wales, lol.

Chris :)

I’m thinking that I’m going to have to concede defeat on daughter Margaret’s birth, there are far too many of them around the same time and area. Not sure that getting Henry’s birth certificate would help, though it might say for sure that William Henry was his father.

Thanks for trying.

Banns were called for Henry Parsons marriage at what must have been his Parish Church

Liverpool, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932

Name: Henry Parsons
Gender: Male
Event Type: Banns (Bann)
Marriage Banns Date: 25 May 1884
Marriage Banns Place: Aintree, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Aintree, St Peter' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Spouse: Maria Fanny Roughley


Henry, Bachelor of this Parish
Maria, Spinster, of Longsight Manchester



I cannot find the actual marriage entry online. It took place at St John Church, Longsight, Manchester ............

from lancs-bmd ...........

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1884
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
PARSONS Henry ROUGHLEY Maria F Longsight, St. John Archives+, Manchester Central Library 80/2/147

Well I'm not sure about Margaret Birth!...was just taking Reg. District, but all seems odd.

Would get that John Crosby 1873 Marriage, Sylvia posted, pehaps the Henry Birth Cert...

Chris :)

(if him below)

Marriages Jun 1884 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Parsons Henry Chorlton 8c 1054
ROUGHLEY Maria Fanny Chorlton 8c 1054

1891
Henry Pearsons Head Married Male 31 1860 Iron Moulder Lancashire (Liverpool), England
Maria F Pearsons Wife Married Female 29 1862 - Lancashire, England
William H Pearsons Son - Male 6 1885 - Lancashire, England
Margaret Pearsons Daughter - Female 2 1889 - Lancashire, England
Shepley Street, Gorton, Chorlton, Lancashire


1901
Henry Parsons Head Married Male 41 1860 Iron Moulder Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Marie Fanny Parsons Wife Married Female 39 1862 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Margaret Parsons Daughter - Female 12 1889 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
William Henry Parsons Son - Male 16 1885 Apprentice Cabinet Maker Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Fanny Parsons - - Female 7 1894 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
127, Morton Street, South Manchester, Chorlton, Lancashire


1911
Henry Parsons Head Married Male 51 1860 Iron Moulder Lancashire Liverpool
Maria A Parsons Wife Married Female 49 1862 - Lancashire Longsight
Fanny Parsons Daughter Single Female 17 1894 Machinist Blouses Lancashire Longsight
Maggie Melson Daughter Married Female 22 1889 Machinist Corsets Lancashire Longsight
Arnold Nelson Son In Law Married Male 23 1888 Boiler Maker Yorkshire Sheffield
127 Morton St W Gorton Manchester, South Manchester, Lancashire


Deaths Dec 1922 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------
Parsons Maria F 61 Chorlton 8c 810

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/143419952/maria-f-parsons

This is definitely confusing. This is what it looks like to me.
Margaret Roberts married William Henry Parsons (or maybe common-law).
They had two children, Margaret and Henry.
1861 they're living 100 Field View, Bootle, Liverpool -
William Henry, master builder, age 54
Margaret, wife, age 35
Margaret, daughter, age 6
Henry, son, age 9 months

On freebmd I found a birth for Henry - Dec 1860, W. Derby, 8b/268
The only births I found for a Margaret Parsons between 1840 and 1870 in Liverpool
were in 1846, 1860 and 1862 - none of these match up with her being six in 1861 census, and the one in 1860 gives a birth in Jun qtr of 1860 so that doesn't work with Henry being born in Dec qtr.

We dismissed the 1871 census record for John Crosby and Margaret Parsons because it shows Margaret as born in Ireland, and 'my' John and Margaret didn't marry until 1873. Then see her living with brother Robert and family.

After the 1861 census we seem to lose daughter Margaret. Chris, you show a birth record for Margaret Roberts in 1855 so I'm wondering if maybe Margaret had daughter Margaret before she met William Henry and he just accepted her as his own. I thought I might order the 1855 certificate and see what it says for 'father', but when I look on freebmd there are a lot of Margaret Roberts born in that time period, I wonder why you chose the 1855, or was that the only one you found at the time.

I was getting confused also!...you mentioned this 1881 Yvonne earlier...

Chris :)

1881 (Reference)
John Crosby Head Married Male 60 1821 Bricklayer Halewood, Lancashire, England
Margaret Crosby Wife Married Female 52 1829 Bricklayer Wife Llangollen, Denbighshire, Wales
Henry Parsons Step Son Single Male 21 1860 Coal Pit Lab Kirkdale, Lancashire, England
193, Chan (Chancery) Lane, Parr, Prescot, Lancashire

(then it was seeing below at address)

1871
John Crosby Head - Male 31 1840 - Lancashire, England (Bricklayer)
Margaret Crosby Wife - Female 47 1824 - Ireland
Chancery Lane, Parr, Prescot, Lancashire,


(worth a try on below, that Sylvia found earlier)

Marriages Dec 1873 (>99%)
CROSBY John Prescot 8b 1033
PARSONS Margret Prescott 8b 1033


(below was on 1861 also)

Margaret Parsons Daughter - Female 6 1855 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Birth
ROBERTS, MARGARET ROBERTS
GRO Reference: 1854 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 293

(if her, not seeing a Parsons)


1871
Robert Roberts Head - Male 39 1832 - Denbighshire, Wales
Ellen Roberts Wife - Female 37 1834 - Lancashire, England
Annie Roberts Daughter - Female 3 1868 - Lancashire, England
Margaret Ellen Roberts Daughter - Female 1 1870 - Lancashire, England
Margaret Parson Sister - (Widow) Female 40 1831 - Denbighshire, Wales
Bridge Street, Windle, Prescot, Lancashire

CROSBY, OWEN KELLY mmn KELLY
GRO Reference: 1846 S Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 20 Page 1042

CROSBY, JOHN mmn KELLEY
GRO Reference: 1850 D Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 20 Page 815

Well, as Margaret was with William Henry and the 2 children in 1861, I don't think that the John Crosby with a Margaret born in Ireland in 1861 and 1871 is correct

For one thing, their ages are wrong!

I also have not found the birth of the child Margaret under the name of Parsons OR Roberts, nor have I found her in a later census. So I don't know whether she was Margaret's child before she got together with WHP or whether WHP was her father.


I'm going to see if I can find the maiden name of the Margaret with a John Crosby in those 1861 and 1871 Censuses.

I'm confused.
We have Margaret married or with William Henry Parsons, and they have two children, Henry and Margaret. They are together in 1861 census. William Henry died in 1864 and we think Margaret re-married to John Crosby.
Chris found a John Crosby and Margaret in 1861 and 1871 census, both showing Margaret as being born in Ireland.
Then in 1881 census John Crosby and Margaret are shown with stepson Henry Parsons. Margaret is shown as born in Llangollen.

Was looking round, and saw below for Parr?...

Chris :)

County Lancashire
Place Parr
Church name St Peter
Register type Unspecified
Birth date 14 Dec 1868
Baptism date 28 Feb 1869
Person forename John
Person sex M
Father forename John
Mother forename Margaret
Father surname CROSBY
Person abode Parr
Father occupation Brick Setter

https://www.freereg.org.uk/

(strange!)

Baptism: 28 Feb 1869 St Peter, Parr, Lancashire, England
John Crosby - [Child] of John Crosby & Mary Ann
Born: 14 Dec 1868
Abode: Parr
Occupation: Bricksetter
Baptised by: A. A. Nunn
Register: Baptisms 1845 - 1896, Page 159, Entry 1270
Source: LDS Film 1849649

(perhaps below then for above)

Birth
CROSBY, JOHN PRESCOT
GRO Reference: 1869 M Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 626


Marriages Jun 1868 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------
Crosby John Prescot 8b 849
Prescot Mary Ann Prescot 8b 849

1861
John Crosby Head Married Male 41 1820 Bricklayer Halewood, Lancashire, England
Margaret Crosby Wife Married Female 29 1832 Bricklayers Wife Ireland
Owen Crosby Son Unmarried Male 13 1848 Labourer In A Coal Miner Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John Crosby Son - Male 10 1851 Scholar St Helens, Lancashire, England
Parr Stocks Road, Parr, Prescot, Lancashire,


(below is same Chancery Lane as 1881 posted earlier, age possibly 51 on image, not clear!)

1871
John Crosby Head - Male 31 1840 - Lancashire, England (Bricklayer)
Margaret Crosby Wife - Female 47 1824 - Ireland
Chancery Lane, Parr, Prescot, Lancashire,


County Lancashire
Place Parr
Church name St Peter
Register type Unspecified
Birth date 14 Nov 1874
Baptism date 27 Dec 1874
Person forename Owen
Person sex M
Father forename John
Mother forename Mary Ann
Father surname CROSBY
Person abode Parr
Father occupation Miner

(things curious with these, lol)

????????????????

Margaret's death from Freebmd, or not? ......

Deaths Jun 1883 (>99%)
CROSBY Margaret 55 Liverpool 8b 119

Yes, lol, wondered if Caroline was related somewhere, with her Father being a Henry, occ. Tea Merchant, but probably wouldn't help with Margaret anyway. You know what the lancs opc website is like, one can get carried away, lol.

(wondered if John Marchant being a Joiner by trade, perhaps knew William H. the Master Builder!)

Chris :)

(so at the moment, not sure if 1841 with John Jones relates?)

1881 (Reference)
John Crosby Head Married Male 60 1821 Bricklayer Halewood, Lancashire, England
Margaret Crosby Wife Married Female 52 1829 Bricklayer Wife Llangollen, Denbighshire, Wales
Henry Parsons Step Son Single Male 21 1860 Coal Pit Lab Kirkdale, Lancashire, England
193, Chan (Chancery) Lane, Parr, Prescot, Lancashire

Chris ...............

re the marriage of Caroline Parsons

William Henry Parsons was a Master Builder in the 1861 Census where he is with Margaret and Henry

Is that them below?...(apologies, I'm getting confused here!, was looking at 1841 above)

Chris :)

County Denbighshire
Place Llangollen
Church name St Collen
Register type Parish Register
Marriage date 26 Jun 1819
Groom forename Thomas
Groom surname ROBERTS
Bride forename Margaret
Bride surname JONES
Bride parish Llangollen

https://www.freereg.org.uk/

(image is on FMP, wits. Peter Jones, Thomas Jones (Clerk)


15 August 1864 - Liverpool Mercury - Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Death
PARSONS - August 13, at 102, Bootle-lane, Kirkdale, in his 57th year, Mr. William Henry Parsons.


Edits (below also come up near Robert Roberts above, with Father Thomas, Labourer, no idea if they relate!)


Marriage: 25 Dec 1858 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Llewelyn Roberts - (X), Labourer, bachelor, Eccleston
Ellen Hughes - spinster, Eccleston
Groom's Father: Thomas Roberts, Labourer
Bride's Father: David Hughes, Labourer
Witness: William Wallis, (X); Margaret Wallis, (X)
Married by Banns by: Francis L Horsham
Register: Marriages 1854 - 1860, Page 186, Entry 371
Source: LDS Film 1657597 item 2


Marriage: 15 Apr 1861 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Michael Fowley - (X), full age, Collier, Bachelor, Eccleston
Margaret Roberts - (X), full age, Spinster, Eccleston
Groom's Father: James Fowley, Labourer
Bride's Father: Thomas Roberts, Labourer
Witness: Thomas Jones; George Eaton
Married by Banns by: F. L. Cursham
Register: Marriages 1860 - 1868, Page 21, Entry 42
Source: LDS Film 1657597


1871
Thomas Roberts Head - (Wdr) Male 75 1796 - Wales (Denbighshire) (Labourer)
Ann Roberts Daughter - Female 47 1824 - Wales (Denbighshire) (Domestic Servant)
29 Glover Street, Eccleston, Prescot, Lancashire


Edits (looking at 1861 of Llewellyn and Ellen Roberts, both Birthplaces as Fintshire, so not looking like relating!) (and 1871 Michael Foley, Margaret born Flintshire)


https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=269119.0

(in relation to William Henry Parsons)


(noted also, below)

Marriage: 8 Jan 1861 St George, Everton, Lancashire, England
John Mather - 50, Joiner, Widower, Merton Rd Bootle
Caroline Parsons - 40, Spinster, Merton Rd Bootle
Groom's Father: George Mather, Joiner
Bride's Father: Henry Parsons, Tea Merchant
Witness: William Henry Parsons; Caroline Hoskin
Married by Banns by: C. Logan
Register: Marriages 1860 - 1863

I have to give up now, it's getting a bit late here!

I would suggest that she did not marry William Henry Parsons, lived with him common-law, kept his name, and married under that name.

I cannot find Margaret "Parsons" birth under either Parsons OR Roberts in any of the sites that I've looked

This could equally well be Margaret in 1841, in Liverpool. She's shown as "not born in county", ie not born in Lancashire. But it looks as though she might be a servant


1841 Census

Name: Margaret Roberts
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Gender: Female
Civil Parish: Liverpool
Hundred: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Dale Street

Piece: 556
Book: 24
Folio: 21
Page Number: 35

Margaret Roberts 15
John Matthews 40
Mary Matthews 40
Emma Matthews 7
William Matthews 10weeks
Peter Wiseman 20
Rachel Wiseman 20
James Wiseman 2weeks
Thomas Wiseman 40

Address:- Cheapside


OR this one, also not born in County

Name: Margaret Roberts
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Gender: Female
Civil Parish: Walton On The Hill
Hundred: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Everton

Piece: 519
Book: 2
Folio: 13
Page Number: 19

Robert Cleworth 40
Elizabeth Cleworth 35
Margaret Roberts 15

Address:- Plumpton Street



there are 2 or 3 others.