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Sorry not answered your post AG but been so absorbed in find more out about the Bell/ Lee situation and yes just as complicated. Obviously Anthony Bell and Margaret Lee never married, 1891 they had both left Durham and set up home together in Brotherton, with 4 sons, well unsure if Robert the eldest was theirs together, he’s a mystery, and a daughter. In 1891 I found Margaret Bell , re- Margaret Dennison wife of Anthony Bell, in the Sedgefield, Durham Lunatic Asylum, age 42 yrs, married and husband a pitman so he was not free to marry. Between 1891 and 1901 Anthony and Margaret nee Lee had separated , she called herself Lee and living in Pontefract, by this time she had another son Enoch age 1yrs old. I have just received his birth certificate, his mother Margaret Lee , father unknown. By August of that year Margaret Lee was doing a small prison service and then again in November a few months later. I believe perhaps baby Enoch was either in a workhouse with Margaret at some time or he was put in a home because by 1911 Enoch was a boarder 12 yrs old in the household of a Maria Abel spinster age 61, and brother Andrew Abel age 54 widower , living in Doncaster. On the official census form of the household it is written over his name L.G.B, which I found is the Local Governing Board, so I would think it is them who kept overall control of his welfare. Someone on here found that Maria Abel worked at the workhouse, perhaps she felt sorry for Enoch and took him in. He was killed in a pit accident age 17 yrs old. AG, I took out a membership for Fold3, wish I hadn’t ,it’s mostly for the USA and so difficult to manoeuvre around the site, couldn’t make head nor tails of anything so cancelled, waste of money and do think Ancestry are on to a good thing by making people to refer to it. Yes I have another complicated family in my life.

Hello John. I know you had several Moore threads a few years ago, but I'm afraid I don't remember Theresa in particular.

Your Lees family seems to be just as complicated!

Rose.I dismissed him because of Cockermouth being on the West Coast and if his mother being Margaret Lee she lived on the East Coast, it stated on the 1881 census, he was a visitor age 1 with a Margaret Connor, nee Lee, in the household of Anthony Bell and stated born in Ferryhill Durham. In 1891 they were both living with Anthony Bell in Castleford Yorks. I I wondered if Robert was actually his son but Margaret Connor gave him that surname because his wife Margaret ( Dennison) was in the household. 1891 Margaret (Dennison )wife of Anthony was in a Lunatic Asylum in Durham.

John he's Robert Raven. mistranscribed I'm sure as Ravean as posted

RAVEN, ROBERT mmn BELL
GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in COCKERMOUTH Volume 10B Page 572

AG. This Robert Bell had a name of Robert Ravean in 1881, just not sure who he is , found no birth at all of a Robert Ravean

Thank you AG, will try to get on to folder 3. Not had contact with you for a long while, hope you are well. Got another complicated one here again regarding my step fathers family. Some call themselves Bell others Lee, driving me mad again. Do you remember my Theresa Moore?

On Ancestry, you need someone with a sub to Fold3 to take a look.

Or make use of Fold3's free trial period if you haven't already done so.

Could anyone help me please to find the following, regarding a Court martial trial of Robert Bell 17;March 1899. In York. His regiment York’s & Lanc . Ref WO 86/50. I am unable to find the trial. Many thanks

Notes a year later, Witnesses from Patrick Lee Marriage.

Chris :)

Fury Catherine - 1849 Scotland Roman Catholic Parish Marriages Lennoxtown, Stirlingshire, Scotland (James Lee)


(google search, below)

http://donegalgenealogy.com/campsieMeg.htm

Lindsay
#59 - John LEE born March 10th, 3am at Lennoxtown, Campsie [lodgings] to
Patrick LEE, Ironstone Miner, 27y born Co. Fermanagh and Margaret LEE ms
LINDSAY, her 4th child, 25y born Co. Donegal. They wed 1848, Campsie
and had 2 girls living, 1 boy deceased. Informant was the father who
signed with his mark X witnessed by Js. McLENNAN and Thos SEMPLE.
Registered March 20th.

Oh darn rootgatherer, I have been on Findmypast and couldn’t find the image, so applied for a marriage cert on Scotland People, wasted my money having just read your post. I have been on Ancestry for years but decided to try Findmy Past for a month but after Ancestry I do not find it an easy site at all. Many thanks for the info should have read your message yesterday

The image of this record is on FindMyPast. There are no parents named.


First name(s) Patrick
Last name Lee
Alias Patrick
Marriage year 1848
Marriage date 25 Aug 1848
Denomination Roman Catholic
Parish St Machan
Place Lennoxtown
Diocese St Andrews & Edinburgh
County Stirlingshire
Country Scotland
Spouse's first name(s) Margaret
Spouse's last name Lindsay
Spouse's alias Margaret
Archive
The Scottish Catholic Archives
Reference MP/80
Year range 1831-1925
Record set Scotland Roman Catholic Parish Marriages
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from Scotland, Great Britain
© Catholic National Endowment Trust Charity No. SCO 16650 (known as The Bishops' Conference of Scotland)

Statutory registration didn't begin until 1855 in Scotland. You will only get an entry in the Parish records for an 1848 marriage. Rarely do those records name parents.

Would be below for Scotland...

https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/

Chris :)

https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/our-charges

(info. Costs)

I know the marriage date of Patrick Lee and Margaret Lindsey , 25 Aug 1848 Strathblane Scotland but where do I get a marriage certificate from to find out who their fathers were so I can proceed further down the line,

Just to add, did note on 1911 For Robert, Anthony as Father was crossed through, replaced with Boarder...

Anthony Bell given as name of Father on Marriage Cert. 1906.

Chris :)

(was added on below posting)

Chris Ho :) Report Edit Delete 25 Sep 2019 19:00

I have looked on the Military record for Anthony Bell b 1884 Durham, His address 8 Albion Place Wainwtight St, , Castleford. Next of Kin. Father. Anthony Bell. mother Margaret Bell, both down as address not known. Brother Robert Bell. Old Engine, Ashley Yorkshire. 1915. Anthony Bell had his leg amputated so was discharged. Ironically his brother Andrew also had his leg amputated at the later part of his life. 1901 Anthony Lee (not Bell) was with his Mother Margaret Lee, brothers Andrew Lee, and Enoch Lee , living in Castleford. York’s. I now think that Andrew my step grandad was the only one that kept the name of Lee..

John. Robert Raven is the son of Margeret Bell, and William Raven, Not Margeret Lee and Anthony Bell. You could get the birth cert to be sure but it does confirm the surnames on the GRO index.

I was working on a vague theory that the mother of Robert Raven, Margaret Bell ;might have been Anthony Bell's sister?

On the other hand she could be the daughter to his brother John, there is a possible birth for a Margaret ( mmn Graham ) and so Anthony would be her uncle......

I think I would ignore Robert Raven and any possible connection for the moment, otherwise it will just get too tangled!

I keep doubling back on all the posts, This Robert Ravean b 1879, confirming Anthony and Margaret Bell in the 1891 census living in Brotherton Yorkshire and Robert Bell b 1879 was with them. Found the Military records for Robert Bell b 1879 Sturry Hill Durham, stating he lived in Glasshoughton Yorkshire, he was wounded, and later died on board the H.S. Soudan, he was buried at sea. No parents recorded on the records but his wife and 4 children, ironically Andrew Lee / Bell named 3 of his children the same names as Robert’s children, also a son named Robert. I truely feel 100% that Robert Ravean/Bell is the son of Anthony and Margaret Bell. Margaret nee Lee ( Connor) must have left Anthony by 1901 because she had a baby Enoch Lee ( no father listed) by someone else and the children she took with her , they took her maiden name Lee although they were registered as Bell. The complication of Margaret Lee is unbelievable.

I have just looked at the Military record for Andrew Lee b 1884 Sleepburn ,Durham. and can confirm the following, Mother Margaret Lee — address unknown. Brother, Mark Lee (older) of Glasshoughton Yorkshire.

Rambling . Getting so confused now , regarding Robert Raven b 1878 Cockermouth Cumberland you mentioned, which is on the west coast of England, but in 1881 he was in Durham , ( and only age 1yr and a visitor ? ) which is on the east coast. I am sure Mark was mentioned as elder brother on the Military papers of Andrew Lee, also states mother Margaret but Andrew didn’t know where she was living. This was in 1903