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The ONLY way to get 100% factual info is to get a copy of the 1887 marriage cert

It may well be that the birth info is the right person, but......................

Even if Charles of Portsea is the right person, I can't see him on any census.

Don't know if it's just coincidence re name but if Charles died at 89 Gloucester rd Croydon in 1892, ( he's wasn't there 1891) this is number 93. EDIT does seem likely to be coincidence.

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Gloucester Road, Croydon, Surrey, England

Henry Warren Head Married Male 40 1851 Butchers Assistant Surrey, England
Eliza Warren Wife Married Female 35 1856 - Hampshire, England
Agnes Annie Warren Daughter - Female 7 1884 - Surrey, England

These look like his army records which you can download for free:

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=299172

I am off to have a read but they do give a birth date of 9th June, 1892..

There appear to be 74 pages so it may be a while before I return with any more info !! ;-)

Dea x

Still reading............... but just had a thought. - As his father died on 26th May 1892 and he was born on 9th June 1892, it is very possible that amongst all the 'activity' and distress, his birth was not registered??

28 more pages to go so back later............................

Dea x

William Frederick seems to have had 2 sisters - at least one of them was younger than him and suffered from consumption (TB) which his other sister died of around 1911 ?? - I can see no registrations to fit in with this as yet ?

Dea x

I'm still coming back to William Holt Warren. born the right qtr but a year out, there is no other Warren /Wood marriage to account for him in Croydon at least.

1901
First name(s) William H
Last name Warren
Relationship Inmate
Marital status Single
Sex Male
Age 9
Birth year 1892
Birth town -
Birth place Not Known
Birth place other as transcribed N K
Birth county -
Occupation None
House name -
House number -
Street -
Town -
Parish Reigate
Country England
County Surrey
Municipal ward South East
Registration district Reigate

Archive reference RG13
Piece number 628
Folio 109
Page 27
Record set 1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Just for ref the John T Murgatroyd that was Lottie's second husband, just before he died.

1911
First name(s) John
Last name Murgatroyd
Relationship Patient
Marital status Married
Sex Male
Age 40
Birth year 1871
Birth place Leicester
Occupation Acrobat <<<<<<
House name -
House number -
Street High Street
Address High Street Lewisham
Parish Lewisham

Also just for ref year of immigration for William on 1921 Canada census is given as 1912.

Is this somehow connected to the nephew Fred King who is with Lottie in 1911 ?


William Warren
in the 1901 England Census
Name: William Warren
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Relation to Head: Grandson
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Croydon, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Croydon
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Croydon
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Croydon
Sub-registration district: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 46
Neighbors:
Piece: 642
Folio: 52
Page Number: 41
Household schedule number: 273
Household Members:
Name Age
Esther King 60
William Warren 8

Following that thought:

??
Esther King
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Esther King
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1843
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: William King
Gender: Female
Where born: Croydon, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Barton Upon Irwell
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 4 Parr In Lane Monton
Marital status: Married
Registration district: Barton Upon Irwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors:
Piece: 3883
Folio: 25
Page Number: 43
Household Members:
Name Age
William King 39 - Croydon
Esther King 38


??
Hester King
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Hester King
Age in 1911: 69
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation to Head: Inmate
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Walten Heath, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Croydon
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: Croydon Union Workhouse Including Children's Homes and All Other Detached Buildings) , Queen's Road, Croydon
Marital status: Widowed
Occupation: Formerly Domestic Servant
Registration district: Croydon
Registration District Number: 39
Sub-registration district: West Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 45-48
Piece: 3367

Wasn't Lottie's mother an 'Esther' about the same age???

Just off to take a look..................

Dea x

Yes, IF the tree that was quoted on page 1 is correct, then this is Lottie in 1881 - and in that case can't be Esther King's daughter:

Lottie Wood
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Lottie Wood
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relationship to Head: Daughter
Father: James Wood
Mother: Esther Wood
Gender: Female
Where born: Norwood, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Croydon
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: Sanderstead Rd 4 Elm Cots
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors:
Piece: 808
Folio: 98
Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
James Wood 65
Esther Wood 39
Lottie Wood 12
Albert Wood 6

The two Esthers are about the same age, and both born in Surrey - but not the same person:

Esther Muggridge
in the Surrey, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1933
Name: Esther Muggridge
Gender: Female
Age: 22
Birth Year: abt 1842
Marriage Date: 23 Oct 1864
Marriage Place: Croydon, St Peter, Surrey, England
Parish as it Appears: Croydon
Father: Methusalah Muggridge
Spouse: James Wood <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Unless I've picked on the wrong Esther King in 1881 , of course!

EDIT: Yes, in light of later posts, that 1881 Esther King is the wrong one.

Ah, interesting! This must be Lottie's birth - not as Wood:

GREENWOOD, LOTTIE mms MUGGRIDGE
GRO Reference: 1868 D Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 227


But christened as Wood:

Lottie Wood
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Lottie Wood
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 20 Dec 1868
Baptism Place: Croydon, St. James, Surrey, England
Father: James Wood
Mother: Esther
FHL Film Number: 994342

Saw below, if relating...

Chris :)

Croydon Chronicle and East Surrey Advertiser 28 May 1892

Deaths
Warren - On the 26th inst., at 89, Gloucester Road, Croydon. Charles Robert Warren, aged 28 years.


Edits (24, Leighton Street 1901,with Esther King, posted earlier. 74, is Henry Tolfrey. 1911, 74, Leighton Street, Edward Andrew Tolfrey)

National School Admission Registers & Log-Books 1870-1914 (Find My Past)

First name(s) William
Last name Warren
Birth year 1893
Birth date 09 Jun 1893
Event year 1903
School name Mitcham Road Boys School
Town Croydon
County Surrey
Parent name(s) Lottie
Book type Admissions
Archive reference SCH70_2_2_2
Folio / page no. 5
Archive Croydon Archives
(address, 74, Leighton St. E. Date of Last Attendance, 12/1/06. Cause of Leaving, Left Borough (Kennington)


(notes below has 93, Gloucester Rd., saw a Census posted earlier somewhere!)


First name(s) William
Last name Warren
Birth year 1892
Birth date 26 Jun 1892
Event year 1904
School name Sydenham Road Boys School
Town Croydon
County Surrey
Parent name(s) Warren Eliza
Book type Admissions
Archive reference SCH17_3_2_1
Folio / page no.-
Archive Croydon Archives
Record set National School Admission Registers & Log-Books 1870-1914


Surrey, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1912 (Ancestry)

Lottie Abood (Wood)
20 Dec 1868 Croydon Common, St James
James,
Eather (Esther)
(Abode, Cobden Road, occ. Labourer)

That was looking very promising Chris - this is the census which 'Rambling' posted above:

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Gloucester Road, Croydon, Surrey, England

Henry Warren Head Married Male 40 1851 Butchers Assistant Surrey, England
Eliza Warren Wife Married Female 35 1856 - Hampshire, England
Agnes Annie Warren Daughter - Female 7 1884 - Surrey, England


WARREN, AGNES ANNIE RAPKINS
GRO Reference: 1883 S Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 221


Marriages Jun 1881 (>99%)
RATKINS Eliza Croydon 2a 380 Scan available - click to view
Warren Henry Croydon 2a 380 Scan available - click to view



They had a son in 1892 who is very probably the 'William' who went to school from that address on the record you have found:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
WARREN, HENRY WILLIAM RAPKINS
GRO Reference: 1892 S Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 234

Unfortunately then he is not the 'William Frederick' we are looking for......

Dea x :-\

Which still leaves us with Esther King's grandson.

If Lottie's son (even if he's not the King grandson) was born 9 June 1893 as per school record, that fits with William Holt Warren's birth in 3rd quarter 1893.

Have to go off for a little while but just throwing these in for you to take a look at please?



Deaths Mar 1890 (>99%)
Wood James 66 Croydon 2a 191 Scan available - click to view



Marriages Dec 1890 (>99%)
Burkin Lilian Marie Croydon 2a 525 Scan available - click to view
Potter Albert Spenser Croydon 2a 525 Scan available - click to viewAdditional information available - click to view
POTTER Albert Spencer Croydon 2a 525 Scan available - click to view
Wood Esther Croydon 2a 525 Scan available - click to view ***************************
Wooller William Croydon 2a 525 Scan available - click to view ***************************



Marriages Dec 1892 (>99%)
COCKBURN James Gillis Croydon 2a 541 Scan available - click to view
KING William Croydon 2a 541 Scan available - click to view ***************
Rowe Ann Elizabeth Croydon 2a 541 Scan available - click to view
WOOLLER Esther Croydon 2a 541 Scan available - click to view ************************


It's all happening a bt quickly but it shows that Esther could have moved from a Wood to a King and be the one we have with grandson on 1901!!

Dea x

Not seeing them on Ancestry, Surrey...

Chris :)

(strange, noticed Marriage of Edward Tolfrey, 1879, Croydon, to Elizabeth Hannah (widow) a witness, Methusulah? Mugridge)

(Tolfreys being at 74, Leighton Street, 1900s, where William (son of Lottie was on school record)


https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/memorials/canadian-virtual-war-memorial/detail/2692171

(Son of William Fredrick and Violet Maud Warren husband of Mary Doreen Warren, of Uphill, Weston-super-Mare)


https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/143433369/william-frederick-warren

Charles Warren died in 1891 at 89 Gloucester Road.


That's Methuselah Muggridge's address in 1891 (Lottie's grandfather);

Methwalch Magridge
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Methwalch Magridge
[Methuselah Mugridge]
Gender: Male
Age: 74
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1817
Birth Place: Croydon
Civil Parish: Croydon
Residence Place: Croydon, Croydon, Surrey, England
Sub Registration District: Croydon
ED, Institution or Vessel: 40
Neighbors:
Piece: 592
Folio: 125
Household Members:
Name Age
Methwalch Magridge 74