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Please could anyone help. I have not been able to find a birth certificate for my grandfather Arthur Cramp. He died 28 October 1981 in South wales. He was born in Honiton, Devon on 7th May 1889. I cannot find him on the 1891 census. His mother Julia Sabina Single is with William Cramp and her sister Ada Single on the 1891 census. Julia his mother married William Cramp on 2 December 1891. Thank you.

Just to start us off:

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Mill Street, Honiton, Devon, England
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Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Cramp Head Married Male 45 1856 Tailor's Cutter -
Subina Cramp Wife Married Female 35 1866 - Chard, Somerset, England
Maud Cramp Daughter Single Female 13 1888 - Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Arthur Cramp Nephew - Male 10 1891 - Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Mildred Cramp Niece - Female 8 1893 - Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Northcote Cramp Son - Male 7 1894 - Honiton, Devon, England
Frank Cramp Son - Male 5 1896 - Honiton, Devon, England


No Arthur showing on 1891 !!:

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Mill Street, Honiton, Devon, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Cramp Head Widower Male 36 1855 Tailors Cutter Foleshill, Warwickshire, England
Sabina Single Sister In Law Single Female 25 1866 Housekeeper Chard, Somerset, England
Ada Single Sister In Law Single Female 18 1873 Visitor Chard, Somerset, England
Ada Single's Census Details
Details taken from the original census record.


Dea x

She also had:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
CRAMP, MAUD ALICE SINGLE
GRO Reference: 1888 M Quarter in CHARD Volume 05C Page 400



SO, this is connected as Maud (Maud Alice/ Alice Maud?) is with this family:

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Clarence Place, Westbury on Trym, Barton Regis, Gloucestershire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Tanner Head Married Male 66 1825 Retired Coachman Gloucestershire, England
Sabina Tanner Wife Married Female 51 1840 - Somerset, England
Alfred J Tanner Son - Male 11 1880 Scholar Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Alice M Cramp Visitor - Female 3 1888 - Ilminster, Somerset, England

Dea x

Hi Dea

Thank you for looking up the records. The information you have given is correct. No Arthur for 1891, this is a bit of a family mystery as to the whereabouts of his birth records and where he was in 1891.

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Birth year 1 out but 7th May and South Wales ?

81 Main Street, Barry M.B., Glamorganshire, Wales

Bishop household
(8 people)
First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Richard Bishop 27 Oct 1869 Male Butcher Shopkeeper Widowed 198 1
Arthur Cramp 07 May 1890 Male Butcher Shopkeeper Married 198 2
Grace H Cramp 21 Nov 1901 Female Housewife, Unpaid Married 198 3

The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?

Margaret J (Jane M) Jones (Cramp) 25 May 1939 Female Infant, Under School Age Single 198 5
Sydney L Thomas 31 Aug 1898 Male Road Transport Contractor Widowed 198 6
Mary Joy (Thomas) 19 Aug 1927 Female At School Single 198 7
Lilian M Cox 28 Nov 1917 Female Domestic, Servant Single 198 8
View first 5 occupants
Ref: RG101/7314G/021/21 Letter Code: XJDD
© Findmypast Ltd

Hi Dea

I have not come across the census with Maud in 1891, how interesting, I will look down that avenue, as there has to be a family connection for Maud to be there. Thank you. . :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Thank you Dea, my Grandfathers' date of birth is a year different, seems odd that there is no birth record, unless his mother and father were not Julia Sabina Single and William Cramp. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

If this is him and age correct here, then points to 1890 birth.

Whoever registered the death could easily have got the year wrong

1911 Census For England & Wales
Morwenna Bude North Cornwall, Stratton and Bude, Cornwall, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Leslie Vickery Head Married Male 38 1873 Butcher Bude Cornwall
Grace Eleanor Vickery Wife Married Female 36 1875 Assisting In The Business Smithwick Birmingham
John Thomas Vickery Son - Male 10 1901 School Bude Cornwall
Frank Heal Vickery Son - Male 3 1908 - Bude Cornwall
Doris Heal Visitor Single Female 16 1895 - Leeds Yorkshire
Arthur Cramp - Single Male 20 1891 Journeyman Butcher Honiton Devon
William Thomas Oakey - Single Male 15 1896 Apprentice Butcher Cheltenham Gloucester
Richard Hooper - Single Male 64 1847 Servant Bradworthy Devon

I don't think they were his parents - I am looking for another surname for both Arthur + Mildred ..............

They were said to be niece and nephew to this couple on that 1891 census:


Marriages Sep 1877 (>99%)
Tanner John Barton R. 6a 277 Scan available - click to view
Trott Sabina Barton R. 6a 277 Scan available - click to view
TROTT Selina Barton 6a 277 Scan available - click to view

Dea x

Just repeating that 1901 census posted earlier so I can comment at the same time -

Northcote and Frank Cramp's birth reg's can be found in Honiton RD as per place of birth. MMN Single. So were the other 2 born Nottm. or not !

The other 3 children are clearly shown on the original to be born Nottingham yet in 1891 Maud / Alice is shown as born Ilminster which would fit the Birth Reg, in Chard RD. Her mmn shown as Single.

Arthur and Mildred described as Nephew / niece 1901 and birth reg's not found.
IF surname Cramp then children of William's brother or unmarried sister??

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Mill Street, Honiton, Devon, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Cramp Head Married Male 45 1856 Tailor's Cutter - Coventry, Warwickshire
Subina Cramp Wife Married Female 35 1866 - Chard, Somerset, England
Maud Cramp Daughter Single Female 13 1888 - Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Arthur Cramp Nephew - Male 10 1891 - Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Mildred Cramp Niece - Female 8 1893 - Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Northcote Cramp Son - Male 7 1894 - Honiton, Devon, England
Frank Cramp Son - Male 5 1896 - Honiton, Devon, England

Just wondering why I have viewed all these census's before - have you had another thread on these people?

Dea x

Interesting coincidence (?) that Arthur's birth is given as 7th May, and so is Mildred's in 1894;


Mildred Cramp
in the Web: UK, Women's Army Auxiliary Corps Index, 1917-1920
Name: Mildred Cramp
Birth Date: 7 May 1894
Birth Place: Honiton

Yes - a strange co-incidence indeed :-S

This is her in 1939 - she married in 1920:

Mildred Carter's life in 1939
51 St George's Road, Enfield U.D., Middlesex, England

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Neville S Carter 05 Feb 1892 Male Ledger Keeper Hosiery Warehouse Married 99 1
Mildred Carter 07 May 1894 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 99 2
Neville F Carter 15 Sep 1921 Male Chartered Accountant Arti? Clerk Single 99 3
The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?

Dea x

Deaths Mar 1953 (>99%)
CRAMP Julia S 87 E.Glamorgan 8b 394

Just hunting around
Is this your William 1881 - b Foleshill as per 1891 and a Tailor.
Marriage record to Sabina shows him as William George

Already a widower??

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Wellesbourne Road, Barford, Warwick, Warwickshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Harriet Hewitt Head Widow Female 48 1833 Tailoress Warwickshire, England
Caroline D Hewitt Daughter Single Female 8 1873 Scholar Barford, Warwickshire, England
Hubert John Hewitt Son Single Male 6 1875 Scholar Barford, Warwickshire, England
Henry Hewitt Brother In Law Single Male 40 1841 Carpenter Barford, Warwickshire, England
William G Cramp Boarder Widower Male 28 1853 Tailor Foleshill, Warwickshire, England
William Lee Apprentice Single Male 18 1863 Tailor (Apprentice) Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire, England

there are no births in nottinghamshire for maud and arthur cramp

Not that it's relevant, probably, but also can't find a birth record for Alfred John Tanner, (1880 Bristol), the son in the Tanner family where Alice Maud is a visitor in 1891.

Alfred John Tanner
in the Bristol, England, Select Church of England Parish Registers, 1720-1933
Name: Alfred John Tanner
Baptism Date: 29 Feb 1880
Baptism Place: Kingsdown, St Matthew, Gloucestershire, England
Father: John Tanner
Mother: Sabina Tanner




Alfred J Tanner
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Alfred J Tanner
Gender: Male
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 15 Jan 1880
Residence Year: 1939
Residence Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Occupation: Senior Wholesale Provisions Buyer Manager
Schedule Number: 325
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: OARX
Registration district: 319/6
Inferred Spouse: Eleanor M Tanner
Household Members:
Name
Alfred J Tanner
Eleanor M Tanner
Kathleen I Milne

A birth in May 1891 wont show on 1891 census which was taken on 6th April.

Who was his father on his marriage?

Marriages Dec 1933
Bishop Grace H Cramp Cardiff 11a 687
Cramp Arthur Bishop Cardiff 11a 687

Rose

I must have added on Cramp family previously also, I have 'ticks' on School Admissions, Northcote for one, and his Army Service Record...

Chris :)

National School Admission Registers & Log-Books 1870-1914 (Find My Past)

First name(s) Arthur
Last name Cramp
Birth year 1890
Birth date 07 May 1890
Event year 1896
School name Honiton County Primary School
Town Honiton
County Devon
Parent name(s) Willm.
Book type Admissions
Archive reference 4072C/EFA1
Archive Devon Heritage Services, Exeter
(Admission Date, 13/4/96. Address, West End. Left, 30/11/96, Reason, Boys School)


1933 Marriage on FMP for Arthur Cramp, Father, George William, occ. Tailor, a witness Northcote Willis Cramp. (Arthur, widower, 43, occ. Butcher, 7, Barry Road, Cadoxton)