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I am looking for details of a John Guthrie born abt 1847 Scotland.
John Guthrie married Mary Ann Stewart 27th November 1915 at 16 King Street Dundee
It states that John's parents were John Guthrie & Elizabeth Watson
On the certificate is says his occupation is Police Commissioner Carter aged 41 living at Midmill. I have all the information on Mary Ann Stewart, I am looking for any further information on John Guthrie eg" 1901- 1911 census
Mary Ann died in 6th March 1926 & her 2 sons David Duncan Stewart born 30th March 1908 & Alexander Duncan Stewart born 7th October 1910 came to Western Australia on the S.S.Berrima which left London 6th January 1927 aged 16 & 18 years. Did their step father pay for the journey or did he die that's why they came to Western Australia.
Any information gratefully received

I can't see the baptism of any Guthrie with those parents, 1820-54, nor the marriage of such a couple, on ScotlandsPeople or FamilySearch.

EDIT:

Oops - I think you mean 1874, not 1847.

However, I still don't see the parents' marriage.

For births after 1854 it's not possible to use mms as a search term, so it's not possible to know which of the 29 John Guthries born 1873-5 might be him.

the 1911 census is on Scotlands people only

"Police Commissioner carter" seems a very odd occupation - are you sure that's correct?.


This John is born in the right year, and is in Dundee (if that's relevant ), and is a carter:


John Guthrie
in the 1901 Scotland Census
Name: John Guthrie
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Relationship: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Dundee, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 307A/1
Registration district: Mains Landward
Civil Parish: Mains
County: Angus
Address: Honeygreen House
Occupation: Yarn Bleacher's Carter
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 144
Line: 13
Roll: CSSCT1901_110
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary W Guthrie 82
James Guthrie 41
John Guthrie 27
James Guthrie 8



But you'd have to look at the document image on Scotlandspeople to know if he was single, married, or widowed - don't know if James, aged 8, is his son or not.

Assuming he was living in Dundee in 1911, as well as in 1915, there are these men of the right name and age - but no way to know which might be him - if any.


GUTHRIE
JOHN
1911
M
38
307/ 1/L 11
Mains and Strathmartine
Angus


GUTHRIE
JOHN
1911
M
38
304/ 4/ 7
Logie Pert
Angus


GUTHRIE
JOHN
1911
M
37
282/1 29/ 19
St Peter
Angus



The one in Mains & Strathmartin is the one in the 1901 census above.
Other people in the household in 1911:

GUTHRIE
JAMES
1911
M
18
307/ 1/L 11
Mains and Strathmartine
Angus


GUTHRIE
JAMES
1911
M
51
307/ 1/L 11
Mains and Strathmartine
Angus


Again, you'd have to look at the image of the document on SP to know his occupation, etc.

Ok, I've had a look at the marriage cert.

His address is Midmill, Mains & Strathmartine - so that John in 1901 and 1911 will be the correct one.

His occupation, I think says "Police Commissioner's Carter" - so he's a carter, not a police commissioner!

His parents are both deceased, and his father was also a carter.

His mother's name was Elspeth, not Elizabeth.

doesnt the death cert for mary state her marital status

who was the informant

Looks like John in 1891:

John W Guthrie
in the 1891 Scotland Census
Name: John W Guthrie
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relationship: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Dundee, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 307/1
Registration district: Mains
Civil Parish: Mains
County: Angus
Address: Honey Green
Occupation: Yarn Bleacher
ED: 5
Household schedule number: 39
Line: 21
Roll: CSSCT1891_102
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Ann Guthrie 72
James Guthrie 31 - son
Mary Ann Guthrie 22 - grand-daughter
John W Guthrie 18

GUTHRIE

MARY ANN

51


1926

282/3 157

St Andrew (Dundee)

For elimination purposes, this is NOT the Mary Ann aged 22 in 1891 above - this one is with her parents in 1891:

Mary Ann Guthrie
in the Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950
Name: Mary Ann Guthrie
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 25 Oct 1869
Birth Place: Montrose,Angus,Scotland
Father: James Guthrie
Mother: Ann Lyall
FHL Film Number: 6035516

Possibly John in 1881, at school:

John Guthrie
in the 1881 Scotland Census
Name: John Guthrie
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Relationship: Inmate
Gender: Male
Where born: Forfarshire, Brechin
Registration Number: 307/2
Registration district: Strathmartine
Civil Parish: Strathmartine
County: Angus
Address: Baldovan
Occupation: Scholar
ED: Industrial School For Boys
Line: 1
Roll: cssct1881_94

a tree on ancestry has this

Marriage
27 Nov 1915 • Dundee

By declaration and warrant of Sheriff at 16 King Street Dundee
John Watson Guthrie

(1872–)

Mary ann stewart nee Duncan
8.2.1875-3.3.1926

her husband died in 1914 in ww1

David Stewart
1878–1915
Birth 8 DEC 1878 • Lethnot, Angus
Death 4 JAN 1915 • 1, Clearing, H, ptl, France

I think this coud be his birth, in Mains, with middle name Watson - even though the year doesn't agree with the marriage and all the censuses.
1891 shows a middle initial W:

GUTHRIE
JOHN WATSON
M
1872
307/1 39
Mains

EDIT:

And I see Shirley's post above gives the middle name Watson.

as he lived in mains this looks a likely birth
GUTHRIE

JOHN WATSON

M

1872

307/1 39

Mains

Name: John Watson Guthrie
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 1 Jun 1872
Birth Place: Dundee,Angus,Scotland
Mother: Elspeth Guthrie
FHL Film Number: 6035516

doesnt give a fathers name

So he invented a father on his marriage cert, for respectability.

EDIT: But his marriage cert says mms Watson ??

His birth cert details -

Illegitimate.
Noon, 1st June 1872, at Hawkhill, Dundee.
Mother: Elspeth Guthrie, domestic servant, Midmill, parish of Mains.

Elspeth was the informant - she made her mark.

looks like his death

GUTHRIE

JOHN WATSON

78


1950

387/ 570

Perth

so born c1872

the 1881 I posted above, with a John Guthrie at school, can't be the right one.

He's actually with his grandparents:

John Watson
in the 1881 Scotland Census
Name: John Watson
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Relationship: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Dundee, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 307/1
Registration district: Mains
Civil Parish: Mains
County: Angus
Address: Honey Green
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 129
Line: 7
Roll: cssct1881_94
Household Members:
Name Age
John Guthrie 65
Mary Guthrie 63
James Guthrie 22 - son
Andrew Guthrie 20 - son
Jane Guthrie 17 - daughter
Mary Guthrie 15 - grand-daughter
John Watson 9



It would need a look at the original to know if Watson is given as his surname, or as a middle name with the surname Guthrie omitted in the transcription. (The latter seems more likely.)

The family in 1871:

John Guthrie
in the 1871 Scotland Census
Name: John Guthrie
Age: 54
Estimated birth year: abt 1817
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary Guthrie
Gender: Male
Where born: Kinnell, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 307/1
Registration district: Mains
Civil Parish: Mains
County: Angus
Address: Honeygreen
Occupation: Carter
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 181
Line: 12
Roll: CSSCT1871_57
Household Members:
Name Age
John Guthrie 54
Mary Guthrie 53
John Guthrie 20
William Guthrie 16
Mary Guthrie 14
James Guthrie 12
Jean Ann Guthrie 7
Andrew Guthrie 10
Mary A Guthrie 5


And in 1861, showing Elspeth:


John Guthrie
in the 1861 Scotland Census
Name: John Guthrie
Age: 43
Estimated birth year: abt 1818
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary Guthrie
Gender: Male
Where born: Kinnell, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 316
Registration district: Panbride
Civil Parish: Panbride
County: Angus
Address: Pithvie Cottage
Occupation: Ploughman
ED: 3
Household schedule number: 45
Line: 5
Roll: CSSCT1861_46
Household Members:
Name Age
John Guthrie 43
Mary Guthrie 42
Betsy Guthrie 20
Margaret Guthrie 16
Elspeth Guthrie 11 - Rescobie, Forfarshire <<<<<<<<<<
John Guthrie 9
David Guthrie 8
William Guthrie 7
May Guthrie 4
James Guthrie 1

So probably Elspeth in 1871:

Elspeth Guthrie
in the 1871 Scotland Census
Name: Elspeth Guthrie
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relationship: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Rescobie, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 307/1
Registration district: Mains
Civil Parish: Mains
County: Angus
Address: Mains Of Lindry
Occupation: Gen Servt (domestic)
ED: 3
Household schedule number: 72
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1871_57
Household Members:
Name Age
William Cobb 72
Ellen Gardon 55
Elspeth Guthrie 18