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Wow Rambling ,thanks ,this is Samuel without a doubt. By the way I live in Northfleet not to far away from Hartley so know the area well.

ArgyllGran. I am obviously not using Ancestry as I should be.

Sorry if this has already been posted

First name(s) Agnes
Last name Gowin
Birth year 1885
Birth date 26 Jan 1885
Baptism year 1885
Baptism date 16 Feb 1885
Place Agra,St George
Presidency Bengal
Father's first name(s) Edward
Father's last name Gowin
Mother's first name(s) Mary
Mother's last name -
Archive reference N-1-191
Folio 1
Page -

Bingo! I hope

Date matches DOB on Military records, but name has been written thus?

First name(s) Samuel
Last name Goring
Birth year 1883
Birth date 30 Nov 1883
Baptism year 1883
Baptism date 5 Jan 1884
Place Lucknow,All Saints
Presidency Bengal
Father's first name(s) Edward
Father's last name Goring ( Gunner Royal Artillery)
Mother's first name(s) Mary
Mother's last name -
Archive reference N-1-187
Folio 32
Page -
Catalogue descriptions Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal
Record set British India Office Births & Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

Yes the records I've added were from FMP,
:-)

Just incidentally ( as I was curious having lived in Hartley myself :-) )


Albert Wooding was originally Wooden, WOODEN, ALBERT STEVENS
GRO Reference: 1878 J Quarter in DARTFORD Volume 02A Page 439

His brother George son of Thomas , was living in Hartley in 1901 also

1901 England, Wales & Scotland CensusR
Skips Cottage, Hartley, Dartford, Kent, England
George Woodin Head Married Male 35 1866 Labourer @ R Depot Hartley, Kent, England
Susannah Woodin Wife Married Female 33 1868 - Allington, Kent, England
Eliza Woodin Daughter - Female 12 1889 - Hartley, Kent, England
George Woodin Son - Male 10 1891 - Hartley, Kent, England
Edward Woodin Son - Male 7 1894 - Hartley, Kent, England
Annie Woodin Daughter - Female 7 1894 - Hartley, Kent, England
Hezekiah Woodin Son - Male 5 1896 - Hartley, Kent, England
Albert Woodin Son - Male 2 1899 - Hartley, Kent, England

John -
almost all the info I posted was from Ancestry.
The irelandgenealogy website is free to use.
The GRO website is also free - that's where the Wooding children's birth reg's came from, showing mms.
The forces-war-records.co.uk site needs a sub to see the details of records, but the Edward Gorvin entries I posted were from an initial free search.
A lot of other stuff is just the result of Googling.


I think Rose probably got Edward's army record from FindMyPast, which does need a sub.
The basic record is also on Ancestry, but not the full details without an extra sub to Fold3.



Re the Edward and Martha couple -

I agree, Rose. Can't see another Edward Garvin (or similar) born at roughly that time in Northumberland.
Perhaps he lied about his age so as not to seem so much older than Martha!

Just for info

Albert Wooding died 1944, his probate record is on

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

address given as Nursery Cottage, the Nurseries, Longfied Hill, widow Mary Ellen

Trying to digest all your findings, I have come to the conclusion that this Edward is the father of Samuel Gorvan b 1883 India, too many findings seem to tie up, especially so because Samuel settled in Kent and that’s where the Gorvans still live. My gratitude to you all, you are awesome, I am only on Ancestry and their site seems very limited so with many of you being able to access other sites is such a big help. Please continue to post anything else that is found on this family. Thanks

Oh my goodness your findings are amazing, I honestly think this Edward is the Samuel that is on the marriage cert for Samual Gorvan born Lucknow 1883 India and the registrar wrote the fathers name down wrongly. The name Samuel Gorvan is the only name I had to go by, There are so many spellings of the name but the family are now going under the name of Gorvan. The family have always thought they had Irish heritage.

That might be this one though who married 1906? though it doesn't nec' preclude him if he lied about age? there doesn't seem to be another E Gorvan ..

1911 Census For England & Wales
The Square Willington on Tyne, Wallsend, Northumberland, England

Edward Gorvan Head Married Male 48 1863 Boiler Shop Labourer Northumbld Newcastle
Martha Gorvan Wife Married Female 40 1871 - Durham Monkwearmouth



First name(s) MARTHA
Last name GORVIN
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1871
Age 65
Death quarter 1
Death year 1936
District Tynemouth
County Northumberland
Volume 10B
Page 326

Unless this is Edward and he left the family?


First name(s) EDWARD
Last name GORVIN
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1855
Age 73
Death quarter 4
Death year 1928
District Tynemouth
County Northumberland
Volume 10B
Page 250
Country England

I can't find them anywhere in 1891 :-| Unless they stayed in India longer?

Re Samuel 1883 -

his marriage cert (1910) gives father's name as Samuel, and Frances's (1907) gives it as James.

But Edward's army record gives their DOBs.

Is it likely that there would be three families of Gorvins (or similar spelling) in the army in India (and specifically Lucknow) , with children of those names born in those years??

On the other hand, Samuel's army record not only mentions Mrs Wooding , but also Mrs Durrant.

His two sisters - so on the whole, despite all the discrepancies, yes, I think that I think Mary Wooding nee Gorvin, is Edward's daughter Mary Ellen born in Ireland

However, it's hard to see why two of the children's marriages give the "wrong" father's name. I could understand one being a mistake - but two?
Frances's mother was still alive when Frances married, so Frances should have known his name.

Maybe Edward died abroad.

Must have been between 1888 and 1899 if this is the right family.

Re Dorothy Terrace:


It must be Frances's mother whom I saw:

Living with Frances and Walter at 1 Dorothy Terrace:

Mary Gorvin
in the Bexley, Kent, England, Electoral Registers, 1734-1965
Name: Mary Gorvin
Residence Year: 1936
Residence Place: Bexley, Kent, England
Parliamentary Division: Erith


Good question, Rose!

Things in favour of that:
Mary Ellen's father is named as Edward on her marriage record.
There's no sign of her in England before her marriage in 1899 (but where was the family in 1891 if Edward left India in 1888 ?)
Even though her birthplace is given as Kent in censuses after her marriage, there's no sign of her birth there.

Things against:
DOB on birth record and army record doesn't match that in 1939.
And basically, there's no definite proof one way or the other!

EDIT:

But of course there's the clincher - the DOB of Edward's son Samuel born India 1883. Samuel is who this thread's about.

England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

First name(s) EDWARD
Last name GORVAN
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1821
Age 59
Death quarter 3
Death year 1880
District Newcastle upon Tyne
County Northumberland
Volume 10B
Page 3

England Marriages 1538-1973

First name(s) Edward
Last name Gorvin
Name note -
Marriage year 1845
Marriage date 22 Sep 1845
Marriage place Newcastle upon Tyne
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Gorvin
Spouse's first name(s) Mary
Spouse's last name White
Spouse's father's first name(s) Samuel
Spouse's father's last name White
Residence Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland, England
County Northumberland
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain

GORVIN, EDWARD WHITE
GRO Reference: 1855 M Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE Volume 10B Page 70

ArgyllGran, are we concluding then that Mary Ellen married Wooding and is Samuel's sister as per the army records. but that neither of them knew their father's name for sure on their marriages? edit meant Frances didn't know name of father...

Looking for death of Edward?

The daughter Frances Elizabeth, mentioned in the army record posted by Rose:

Frances Elizabeth Gorvin
in the Bexley, Kent, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1935
Name: Frances Elizabeth Gorvin
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 19 Oct 1907
Marriage Place: Erith, Kent, England
Chapelry: Christ Church
Parish as it Appears: Erith, Christ Church
Father: James Gorvin <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ???? Soldier
Spouse: Walter Frederick Durrant

Was she not sure of her father's name ??


Francis Elizabeth Durrant
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Francis Elizabeth Durrant
Age in 1911: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Luckenon, India <<<<<<<<<<<
Civil Parish: Erith
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street address: 53 Manor Road, Erith, Kent
Marital status: Married
Years Married: 4
Estimated Marriage Year: 1907
Registration district: Dartford
Registration District Number: 43
Sub-registration district: Erith
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 56
Piece: 3742
Household Members:
Name Age
Walter Frederick Durrant 23
Francis Elizabeth Durrant 24
Eva Katherleen Durrant 2
Walter Frederick John Durrant 1



Frances Elizabeth Gorvin
in the India, Select Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
Name: Frances Elizabeth Gorvin
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 22 Jan 1887
Baptism Date: 7 Feb 1887
Baptism Age: 0
Baptism Place: Agra, Bengal, India
Father: Edward Gorvin
Mother: Mary
FHL Film Number: 510881


Francis E Durrant
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Francis E Durrant
Gender: Female
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 22 Jan 1887
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 1 Dorothy Terrace Clare Road <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Residence Place: Erith, Kent, England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Schedule Number: 162
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: CKAE
Registration district: 43-1
Inferred Spouse: Walter F Durrant
Household Members:
Name
Walter F Durrant
Francis E Durrant
This record is officially closed.


Dorothy Terrace rings a bell - saw that somewhere in relation to Mary Ellen Wooding. Will have a look.

GORVIN, EDWARD mms WHITE
GRO Reference: 1855 M Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE Volume 10B Page 70


He's not with his father in 1871:

Edward Gervin
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Edward Gervin
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: 1823
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Devon England
Civil Parish: All Saints
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Newcastle upon Tyne
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Sub-registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 77
Piece: 5094
Folio: 43
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Gervin 48 - widower
Agnes Gervin 14
Albena Gervin 9