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Cross ref Thomas Moore's marriage to Mary Pinkerton was interesting..couldn't find the marriage but eventually found a marriage April 1899 at the Pro Cathedral...its in both Civil and Church Records but Mary was Mary Ward…!!...Parents John and Mary Ward msn Luney 12 Grenville St.
Thomas Moore was present at the death of father-in-law 1906 47 Marlborough St.

Lily must have been a "pet" name - like Lilibet for the Queen.

That's what I thought AG but if you look at Baptismal date and details of Eliz. its Feb 1884...same year as I worked out roughly for " Lily "..so reckoned Eliz must have been the child...with no name...

Possibly Lily's birth ?? [From irishgenealogy.ie - point taken, Erika.]


SR District/Reg Area - Dublin North
Birth of Unknown PINKERTON in 1884
Name Unknown PINKERTON
Date of Birth 1884 (30th Jan)
Group Registration ID 9579079
SR District/Reg Area Dublin North

Female.
Rotunda Hospital.
Father: James Pinkerton, Plasterer, 32 Upper Mecklenburg St.
Mother: Mary Pinkerton, formerly Lumley.

If you check out 1911 Dublin Census.. Mary Pinkerton aged 54 widow (Blind) is living at 22.1 Gloucester Place with daughter Mary Moore plus many others including Marys in-laws…!

This looks to be Eliza.Baptism…..



on 25February 1884

Parish/Church/Congregation - ST. MARY, PRO CATHEDRAL

Area - DUBLIN (RC)


Area - DUBLIN (RC), Parish/Church/Congregation - ST. MARY, PRO CATHEDRAL

Baptism of ELIZABETH ROSANNA PINKERTON of 34 UP MECKLBUG ST on 25 February 1884


Name
ELIZABETH ROSANNA PINKERTON

Address
34 UP MECKLBUG ST

Father
JAMES PINKERTON

Mother
MARY SUMEY

Further details in the record


Date of Birth
6 February 1884

Sponsor 1
ROSANNA GERAGHTY



Her Birth ..(I think its hers)...Rotunda Hospital 30th Jan 1884..parents same names and address (no given name for child)...but cant find one for Lily aged 17 1901....

Residents of a house 47.6 in Marlborough Street (Mountjoy, Dublin)

This looks to be Elizabeth's family.....


Surname

Forename

Age

Sex

Relation to head

Religion

Birthplace

Occupation

Literacy

Irish Language

Marital Status

Specified Illnesses


Pinkelton Lilly 17 Female Daughter Catholic City of Dublin Machenist Read and write - Single -
Pinkelton James 41 Male Husband Prespeterian Clascow Plaster Read and write - Married -
Pinkelton John 22 Male Son Catholic Clascow Plaster Read and write - Single -
Pinkelton Mary Josephin 45 Female Wife Catholic Clascow House Keeper (Blind)


In 1911 John was "boarding" with the McEvoy family High Street Trim Co Meath. Still single and working as a Plasterer.

Thanks gg.

I did know about it, but I asked for it to be named as it’s helpful to all to have info about where to look.

It's on this one -

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie

Use the "more search options" and complete DOB section with mmn Pinkerton

or
start from the beginning at -
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie
and select Civil records etc

apologies if you know the website

Which website, please, AG?

Here's Bernard's birth:

SR District/Reg Area - Dublin
Birth of UNKNOWN TOLE on 10 April 1905
Name UNKNOWN TOLE
Date of Birth 10 April 1905
Group Registration ID 435796
SR District/Reg Area Dublin
Sex Male
Mother's Birth Surname PINKERTON

At Rotunda Hospital.

Father: Patrick Tole, 30 Kings Ave., labourer.
Mother: Eliza Tole, formerly Pinkerton.
Informant: E Anderson, present at birth, Rotunda Hospital.


E Anderson is the informant for lots of births, so will be a hospital employee.

all irish
with john toal aged 41
brother john aged 5

Name: Rose Toal
Arrival Age: 3
Birth Date: abt 1899
Port of Departure: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States
Arrival Date: 18 Jan 1902
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ports of Voyage: Queenstown, Ireland
Ship Name: Haverford
Shipping Line: American Line
Official Number: 113489
Search Ship Database: Search for the Haverford in the 'Passenger Ships and Image



Name: John Toal
Baptism Age: 0
Event Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 1861
Baptism Date: 12 Aug 1861
Baptism Place: Dromintee, Armagh, Ireland
Residence Place: Plaister
Diocese: Armagh
Father: Michael Toal
Mother: Rose Ruddy

Don't know whether relevant or not, but there are some prison registers on FMP which mention a Bernard Toal, this being the first date


First name(s) Bernard
Last name Toal
Age 11
Birth year 1905
Event year 1916
Event date 06 Sep 1916
Occupation Sc Boy
Residence 24 Richmond Cottages
Offence Glass Breaking
Police station Fitzgibbon Street
County Dublin
Country Ireland
Archive
Garda Museum and Archives
Volume year range VOL 5 - ARRESTS 1 JAN 1916 TO 30 SEP 1918
Page 78
Line 21
Record source
View original image
Record set Ireland, Dublin Metropolitan Police Prisoners Books 1905-1908 And 1911-1918
Category Institutions & organisations
Subcategory Prison Registers
Collections from Ireland

Name: Patrick Toal
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 12 May 1866
Birth Place: Ravensdale, Louth, Ireland
Father: Michael Toal
Mother: Rose Ruddy
FHL Film Number: 101126

in the Web: Ireland, Census, 1911

Report issue

Name: Rose Toal
Gender: Female
Age: 85
Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation to Head: Head
Residence Date: 2 Apr 1911
Townland/Street: Plaster
District: Ballymascanlan
County: Louth
Household Members:
Name Age
Rose Toal 85
Bernard Toal 40
John Toal 16
Rose Toal 11
Bernard Toal 6 ---

Name: Bernard Toal
[User-submitted-comment]
Gender: Male
Age: 6
Birth Year: abt 1905
Relation to Head: Grand Son
Residence Date: 2 Apr 1911
Townland/Street: Plaster
District: Ballymascanlan
County: Louth
Household Members:
Name Age
Rose Toal 85
Bernard Toal 40
John Toal 16
Rose Toal 11
Bernard Toal 6

There is one tree on Ancestry with Bernard b about 1905 Dublin with parents Patrick and Elizabeth nee Pinkerton.

It gives his residence in 1911 as Ballymascanlan, Louth, Ireland citing this census record (note the contradiction, which has Bernard born America)

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living
Toal Rose 85 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Louth Farmer Cannot read - Widow - 14 6 4
Toal Bernard 40 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Louth Farmers Son Read only - Single - - - -
Toal John 16 Male Grand Son Roman Catholic Co Dublin Scholar Read and write - - - - - -
Toal Rose 11 Female Grand Daughter Roman Catholic America Scholar Read and write - - - - - -
Toal Bernard 6 Male Grand Son Roman Catholic America Scholar Read and write - - - - - -


Irish bmd indicate that John is possibly son of a Robert (Police constable) and Eliza Toal nee ??

Am wondering about this death - even though an extra initial.
(His son was named Bernard P F)

England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

First name(s) BERNARD F P
Last name TOAL
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1905
Age 60
Death quarter 3
Death year 1965
District Liverpool North
County Lancashire
Volume 10D
Page 192

Wife's death - for info only

First name(s) IVY GWENDOLINE
Last name TOAL
Gender Female
Birth day 14
Birth month 10
Birth year 1906
Age -
Death quarter 2
Death year 1988
District Knowsley
Register number 588

Is this him? Marriage certificate would confirm Father's name and occupation


First name(s) BERNARD F
Last name TOAL
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1927
Registration month -

MarriageFinder ™
BERNARD F TOAL married one of these people
Ivy G Hunter
Spouse's last name Hunter
District West Derby
District number -
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8B
Volume as transcribed 8B
Page number 978

---------------------------------------
The 1939 register shows him as a Plasterer, which would be a familial job

1939 register

43 Winskill Road, Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England

Toal household
(4 people)
First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Bernard Toal 10 Apr 1905 Male Plasterer (Master) Married 175 1
Ivy Toal 14 Oct 1906 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 175 2

The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?


The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?

-------------

the marriage you site - 1904

Party 1 Name PATRICK TOAL
Party 2 Name ELIZABETH PINKERTON
Date of Event 31 July 1904
Group Registration ID 2056526
SR District/Reg Area Dublin North

From image - both of full age, Bachelor/Spinster.
He's a Plasterer.
Both living at 47 Marlborough Street.
His Father Michael also Plasterer and hers is James , no occupation

Married at Pro Cathedral in the Union of North Dublin (Roman Catholic)
He signed, she made her mark.
in the presence of Patrick and Kathleen O'Shea

Not showing for 1902, the parents you give were married 1904,