Find Ancestors

Yes - I have those but it's all very strange isn't it ??

All these people and registrations missing........................................ :-(

Dea x

Also to note is that Ernest Herbert Herbert's father was a 'Cotton Poller' ??? on his marriage cert. - That doesn't really add up but the fact that it is something to do with 'Cotton' does also fit with Ernest Herbert Sole's father who ranges from a Cotton Salesman through to Cotton Merchant and Cotton Broker but always to do with Cotton.

Dea x

I wonder where Philip is.................................... ??

Dea x

Assuming we're right, Ernest must have joined the army between 1901 and 1905, rising to corporal by 1906.

If only someone had Fold3 sub, there might be more to be found on the army record.

Speculation - perhaps his marriage to Beatrice was bigamous, and he changed his name to hide the fact ??
But what did he do with Edith and Basil?!

Eric Ernest died in WW1:

Eric Ernest Sole
in the UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919
Name: Eric Ernest Sole
Birth Place: Formby, Lancs
Residence: Boscombe, Hants
Death Date: 23 Apr 1918
Death Place: Home
Enlistment Place: Brockenhurst, Hants
Rank: Private
Regiment: Hampshire Regiment
Battalion: 1st Battalion
Regimental Number: 31661
Type of Casualty: Died
Theatre of War: Home

Yes AG, I had considered the possibility of a bigamous marriage to Beatrice as being the reason for a change of name but I would really like to find Edith and Basil.

I also wonder why Eric Ernest was brought up by his grandparents?

I am giving up for tonight as it is hurting my little brain now - I will look again tomorrow!!!

Nite nite,

Dea x

I don't see the birth of an Edith Jones in Taunton c1869, for that matter!

Aaagh!

I suppose Eric Ernest wasn't necessarily being brought up by his grandparents - maybe he just happened to be visiting them on the night of the census.


ADDED:
Googling "Basil Sole" brings up fish recipes!

Aaah well - that solves it then - they were all born and died 'at sea' !!!! :-D :-D :-D

Dea x <3

ARTHUR LESLIE
Last name SOLE
Birth year 1880
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Tipper
District Birkenhead
County Cheshire
Country England
Volume 8A
Page 560

Arthur Leslie
Last name Sole
Gender Male
Birth year 1880
Baptism year 1880
Baptism date 05 Jun 1880
Place Claughton-Cum-Grange, Christ Church
County Cheshire
Country England
Father's first name(s) Ernest Samuel
Father's last name Sole
Mother's first name(s) Emma Clare
Mother's last name Sole
Record set Cheshire Diocese of Chester parish baptisms 1538-1911

Eric Ernest
Last name Sole
Birth year -
Baptism year 1898
Baptism date 22 May 1898
Baptism place Formby, Holy Trinity
Denomination Church Of England
Diocese Liverpool
Residence Wicks Lane, Formby
Father's first name(s) Ernest Herbert
Mother's first name(s) Edith
County Lancashire
Country England

Well, I'm certainly at sea with this, Dea.

Well, it gets us absolutely no further whatsoever but I have found Ernest Sole :


Deaths Jun 1958 (>99%)
SOLE Ernest H 82 Birmingham 9c 403 ************* born c 1876 !!!!!!!!!!!



Record Transcription:
Warwickshire Burials
What can I do with this record?
We will use the details from this record to create your family tree for you.
First name(s) Ernest Herbert
Last name Sole
Birth year -
Death year 1958
Burial year 1958
Cemetery Birmingham, Handsworth Cemetery
County Warwickshire
Country England
Family history society contact
Source
Warwickshire, Birmingham Burials, 1836-2010
Record set Warwickshire Burials
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Burials
Collections from England, Great Britain

Birmingham and Midland Society for Genealogy and Heraldry


Also buried in the same cemetery was a Catherine Sole (may or may not be connected??)

SOLE, CATHERINE 62
GRO Reference: 1943 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 115



I think this is them even though it clearly says 'Sale' !!

Catherine Sale's life in 1939
27 Villa Road, Birmingham C.B., Warwickshire, England

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Ernest Sale 11 Mar 1876 Male Clerk Grade lll R A F Air Ministry Married 322 1
Catherine Sale 25 May 1881 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 322 2
May Hill 28 Feb 1884 Male Nurse Attendant Single 322 3
Frank Bourne 30 Oct 1907 Male Work Control Chemist Single 322 4
Kenneth C Bryant 03 Aug 1911 Male Resident Engineer Mechanical & Electrical Single 322 5


Do note the date of birth on 1939 for Ernest - it is the same as the newspaper announcement posted above for the one I was following!!

Now, this may just mean that he went back to using the name 'Sole' and that he still could have been the 'Mr. Herbert' we seek but it certainly does not prove otherwise.

Also - where did Catherine come from and what happened to Edith and Basil?

Dea x

Re Ernest Herbert Herbert and Beatrice -
Philip said "They remained married and had other children in Leigh Lancashire . . . ."

Certainly they had children up to 1928 (or at least registered under the name Herbert), but Beatrice is on her own with some of the children in 1939, and saying she's widowed.

I wonder if Philip knows for sure whether they remained together after 1928-ish or not.

As there's no death for EHH, and also apparently no marriage for Ernest Sole/Sale and Catherine, one has to wonder . . .

I have asked Philip to come back to the thread in the hope that he might have some further info ?

Dea x

If it were my family, I wold be inclined to risk buying the 1927 death cert for Ernest H Herbert, aged 51, in Richmond, Surrey, even if only to rule it out.

(Posted on page 1).

The trouble is that the GRO site give his middle name as Henry and there was an Ernest Henry born in Surrey at the right time who would fit......

Death:
HERBERT, ERNEST HENRY 51
GRO Reference: 1927 D Quarter in RICHMOND Volume 02A Page 617

There could, of course, have been an error on the death reg.........

Dea x

No, you're right, Dea.
I had been aware of Ernest Henry before, but had forgotten.

Is there anybody there................... ??? - Knock one for no and twice for yes !!!.................. ;-) :-D :-D

Dea x

Has Philip read your PM, Dea?

When he thanked us for help on the 18th, he seemed to think he would be able to find army records from EHH's regimental number.
I wonder if he's pursued the Fold3 angle, or is hoping that the MOD will have something not showing online (though the latter is unlikely).

No - he hasn't read it yet ... :-(

All we actually need is his dob and surely that must appear on his army records or somewhere within his family......

Dea x

Well, I've signed up for Fold3's free trial.

The Pension Record Card is not a lot of help, though. No date of birth, and no NOK info, so we're no further forward.

Form No. SB 36
Regional number: 8/MH/8354

Ernest Herbert Herbert
CSM, South Lancs, 6583
Date of discharge: 25/03/1919
YOB: 1878
Married.
Address: 17 St Leonards Road, Bournemouth
Disabilities: Gunshot wound right shoulder, attributed to Service.

Post-award correspondence:
Date of letter: 23/2/23 Application to London Region for file.
Date of final disposal: 1/3/ 23 File received.

Other action:
BF (14) 5/3/23
Corres 1/3/23 [ this date seems out of sequence ]
BF 13/3/23
Corres 13/3/23
BF 26/3/23
Corres 26/3/23
PA 6/4/23
Corres 24/7/31
BF OK 30/10/31
OK 30/10/31

There's also a rubber stamp:
OK 25 May 1925

One of the other army records posted previously (not showing on Fold3)
is about the award of medals, and among other squiggles it says:

[A squiggle I can't make out] Recs Preston finds [funds ??] claim for emblems 24/7/24
Address: 25 Royston Street, Liverpool.



No Herberts at that address in 1925 - only Elizabeth Ann Menin and Marietta Josephine Whitfield Menin, who aren't relevant to this puzzle.