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John

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mgnv

mgnv Report 4 Jun 2019 22:08

Cane - you may know that you can buy English & Welsh b/m/d certs from the GRO or from the local rego office that now holds the original rego books.
In the case of church marrs, this will be an official copy of the original rego.
When the original church rego is full, it will be deposited in some local archive after the local copy gets a final check.
Until then, the church holding a current rego can issue an official m.cert of a narr from that rego.

Now the importance of this is that some local rego offices have their index online, see:
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd

These local indexes will not contain the same info as the GRO index, as the records are stored differently.
However, what fields of the index that are transcribed varies.

Of interest here is the GRO index entry:

Marriages Dec 1897 (>99%)
BRADLEY William Auckland 10a 328
HUNTINGTON John Auckland 10a 328
Marley Mary Hannah Auckland 10a 328
Stobbs Violet Auckland 10a 328

and a lookup at https://gro.durham.gov.uk/

Name: HUNTINGTON, John
Year: 1897
Other index entries for this marriage:
MARLEY, Mary H

So this is how one can sometimes answer your basic question

cane

cane Report 2 Jun 2019 08:07

Many thanks to you all...Much appreciated :-)

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 31 May 2019 22:41

Margaret's marriage again, to show father's name:

Margret Turnball
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Margret Turnball
Gender: Female
Age: 20
Birth Date: 1858
Marriage Date: 21 Sep 1878
Marriage Place: St. Helen, Auckland, Durham, England
Father: Christopher Turnball
Spouse: John Scott [ father - James Scott ]
FHL Film Number: 1894175
Reference ID: p 48

greyghost

greyghost Report 31 May 2019 22:40

Well sorted AG !! Bet you've not done much else this evening.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 31 May 2019 21:57

The change from Marley to Turnbull seems to come somewhere between 1891 (when Christopher is still Marley) and 1900, when he's Marley Turnbull at death.

His wife Hannah also makes the change between 1891 and her death:

Hannah Marley-turnbull
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Hannah Marley-turnbull
Estimated birth year: abt 1825
Registration Year: 1904
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 79
Registration district: Auckland
Inferred County: Durham
Volume: 10a
Page: 173

EDIT:
No, they seem to switch between one name and the other. Christopher is Turnbull at daughter Mary Jane's marriage in 1887, but then he's Marley again in 1891.

Turnball at daughter Elizabeth's marriage in 1873:

Elizabeth Turnball
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Elizabeth Turnball
Gender: Female
Age: 22
Birth Date: 1851
Marriage Date: 30 Aug 1873
Marriage Place: St. Helen, Auckland, Durham, England
Father: Christopher Turnball
Spouse: James Gregory Bruce
FHL Film Number: 1894175
Reference ID: p 242

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 31 May 2019 21:53



I still don't see how the name Marley comes into it, if the birth posted by Rambling is correct.
But born Sept qr of 1878, sale as John &Margaret's marriage - if that means anything!


EDIT:

Aha!

Margaret Scott nee Turnb*ll was born at Spring Gardens, Durham, according to 1891 census.


Christopher Marley
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Christopher Marley
Age: 59
Estimated birth year: abt 1822
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Hannah Marley
Gender: Male
Where born: Coundon, Durham, England
Civil Parish: West Auckland
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address: Springardens Road <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Coke Drawer
Registration district: Auckland
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors:
Piece: 4926
Folio: 8
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
Christopher Marley 59
Hannah Marley 55
John Marley 24
William Marley 22
Joseph Marley 18
Sarah Hannah Marley 14
Mary Jane Marley 12


This is apparently Christopher's death:

Christopher Marley Turnbull
in the England, Select Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991
Name: Christopher Marley Turnbull
Gender: Male
Age: 78
Birth Date: 1822
Burial Date: 8 Apr 1900
Burial Place: Etherly, Durham, England
FHL Film Number: 1514667
Reference ID: It7 P43 No337


This is the daughter Sarah Hannah's marriage:

Sarah Hannah Turnbull
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Sarah Hannah Turnbull
Gender: Female
Marital status: Single
Age: 19
Birth Date: 1864
Marriage Date: 14 Apr 1883
Marriage Place: St. Anne'S, Auckland-St. Andrew, Durham, England
Father: Christopher Turnbull <<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse: William Robinson
FHL Film Number: 1894181
Reference ID: 364


And the daughter Mary Jane:

Mary Jane Turnbull
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Mary Jane Turnbull
Gender: Female
Age: 19
Birth Date: 1868
Marriage Date: 26 Nov 1887
Marriage Place: Etherley, Durham, England
Father: Christopher Turnbull
Spouse: John William Moore
FHL Film Number: 1514667
Reference ID: Item3 P133 No265


The son Joseph:

Joseph Turnbull
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Joseph Turnbull
Gender: Male
Age: 24
Birth Date: 1862
Marriage Date: 20 Nov 1886
Marriage Place: St. Helen, Auckland, Durham, England
Father: Christopher Turnbull
Spouse: Jane Ellen Nelson
FHL Film Number: 1894175
Reference ID: p 100


Joseph also calls himself Turnbull in 1901 and 1911.


Birth of the son of Christopher's son John:

Joseph Marley Turnbull
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Joseph Marley Turnbull
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 15 Apr 1885
Baptism Place: Etherley, Durham, England
Father: John Turnbull
Mother: Elizabeth
FHL Film Number: 1514666



Joseph Marley Turnbull
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Joseph Marley Turnbull
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Father: John Turnbull
Mother: Elizabeth Turnbull
Birth Place: Etherley, Durham, England
Civil Parish: West Auckland
Ecclesiastical parish: Etherley St Cuthbert
Town: Etherley
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Auckland
Sub-registration district: Hamsterley
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors:
Piece: 4652
Folio: 5
Page Number: 2
Household schedule number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
John Turnbull 42
Elizabeth Turnbull 37
Joseph Marley Turnbull 16
Wm Marley Turnbull 10

And there are various other records for Christopher and family, showing the two names, or a change from Marley to Turnbull.


Here's Margaret with her family in 1871 - mistranscribed:

Margaret Horley
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Margaret Horley
[Margaret Morley]
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Christopher Horley
Mother's name: Hannah Horley
Gender: Female
Where born: West Auckland, Durham, England
Civil Parish: West Auckland
Ecclesiastical parish: St Helen
Town: West Auckland
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Registration district: Auckland
Sub-registration district: Hamsterley
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 167
Piece: 4935
Folio: 20
Page Number: 33
Household Members:
Name Age
Christopher Horley 48
Hannah Horley 47
John Horley 15
William Horley 13
Margaret Horley 11
Joseph Horley 8
Sarah H Horley 4
Mary J Horley 2

Rambling

Rambling Report 31 May 2019 19:56

I'd get the cert for Mary Hannah Marley ?

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 31 May 2019 19:35

I can't find a registration on GRO for a Mary Hannah Scott mmn Turnball/Turnbull in 1878 +/- 2 years

No Turnbal/Turnball

There are 2 Mary Hannah Turnbull born in 1877 ....... but with a mmn for each

TURNBULL, MARY HANNAH LINDSLEY
GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in DURHAM Volume 10A Page 424

TURNBULL, MARY HANNAH TINDALL
GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in HOUGHTON-LE-SPRING Volume 10A Page 537


There are 2 Mary Turnball, no mmn .........

TURNBULL, MARY -
GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in HEXHAM Volume 10B Page 311

TURNBULL, MARY ANN -
GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in DURHAM Volume 10A Page 446




SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 31 May 2019 19:27

Was Mary Hannah born before their marriage??

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 31 May 2019 18:46

???

Marriages Sep 1878 (>99%)
SCOTT John Auckland 10a 206
TURNBALL Margret Auckland 10a 206 <<<<<<<<<<<<



John Scott
in the 1881 England Census
Name: John Scott
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Margaret Scott
Gender: Male
Where born: Shildon, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Auckland St Helen
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address: Square
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Coal Miner
Registration district: Auckland
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors:
Piece: 4916
Folio: 92
Page Number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
John Scott 24
Margaret Scott 21
Mary H. Scott 2 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


John Scott
in the 1891 England Census
Name: John Scott
Gender: Male
Age: 34
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1857
Spouse: Margaret Scott
Child: Mary H Scott
Birth Place: Old Shildon, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Auckland St Helen
Residence Place: St Helen Auckland, Auckland St Helen, Durham, England
Sub registration district: Bishop Auckland
ED, Institution or Vessel: 14
Neighbors:
Piece: 4069
Folio: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
John Scott 34
Margaret Scott 30
Mary H Scott 12

greyghost

greyghost Report 31 May 2019 18:01

More confusion ?

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Dec 1914 (>99%)
HUNTINGTON James Scott Auckland 10a 432

Births Mar 1918
Huntington Eleanor Turnball Auckland 10a 330 (also mmn as Turnbull but same Vol and Page)

Rambling

Rambling Report 31 May 2019 17:51

2 Begland Terrace, Bishop Auckland U.D., Durham, England
Francis Catterson 05 Aug 1905 Male Electric Suffer Underground Storekeeper Married 23 1
Minnie Catterson 28 Feb 1902 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 23 2
The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?

Margaret Speed (Catterson) 12 Apr 1905 Female Domestic Duties Single 23 4

cane

cane Report 31 May 2019 17:50

Thanks Rambling

cane

cane Report 31 May 2019 17:47

Minnie married francis catterson june q 1931 Auckland...please can someone check for them on 1939 register...Thanks

Rambling

Rambling Report 31 May 2019 17:41

1939 which seems to match birthdate

John Huntington 19 Nov 1873 Male Colliery Hewer Retired Married 215 1
Mary H Huntington 26 Jun 1878 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 215 2
Dorothy Huntington 24 Sep 1921 Female Machinist Leather Factory Single 215 3

Dorothy's mmn is also given as Turnbull.

Rambling

Rambling Report 31 May 2019 17:37

Maybe?

MARLEY, MARY HANNAH -
GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in AUCKLAND Volume 10A Page 236

Maybe her mother married to one of the alternative surnames?

cane

cane Report 31 May 2019 17:24

That's odd.. :-S

greyghost

greyghost Report 31 May 2019 17:15

Not a lot Rambling!!

Wonder what she started as ?

Am wondering if Turnbull was her own Mother - depending on how the question was asked or some such.

Unfortunately tea calls -

cane

cane Report 31 May 2019 17:14

Rambling and greyghost Great minds think alike :-)

Rambling

Rambling Report 31 May 2019 17:09

:-) GreyGhost, confusing isn't it!