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mgnv
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4 Jun 2019 22:08 |
Cane - you may know that you can buy English & Welsh b/m/d certs from the GRO or from the local rego office that now holds the original rego books. In the case of church marrs, this will be an official copy of the original rego. When the original church rego is full, it will be deposited in some local archive after the local copy gets a final check. Until then, the church holding a current rego can issue an official m.cert of a narr from that rego.
Now the importance of this is that some local rego offices have their index online, see: https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd
These local indexes will not contain the same info as the GRO index, as the records are stored differently. However, what fields of the index that are transcribed varies.
Of interest here is the GRO index entry:
Marriages Dec 1897 (>99%) BRADLEY William Auckland 10a 328 HUNTINGTON John Auckland 10a 328 Marley Mary Hannah Auckland 10a 328 Stobbs Violet Auckland 10a 328
and a lookup at https://gro.durham.gov.uk/
Name: HUNTINGTON, John Year: 1897 Other index entries for this marriage: MARLEY, Mary H
So this is how one can sometimes answer your basic question
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cane
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2 Jun 2019 08:07 |
Many thanks to you all...Much appreciated :-)
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ArgyllGran
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31 May 2019 22:41 |
Margaret's marriage again, to show father's name:
Margret Turnball in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 Name: Margret Turnball Gender: Female Age: 20 Birth Date: 1858 Marriage Date: 21 Sep 1878 Marriage Place: St. Helen, Auckland, Durham, England Father: Christopher Turnball Spouse: John Scott [ father - James Scott ] FHL Film Number: 1894175 Reference ID: p 48
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greyghost
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31 May 2019 22:40 |
Well sorted AG !! Bet you've not done much else this evening.
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ArgyllGran
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31 May 2019 21:57 |
The change from Marley to Turnbull seems to come somewhere between 1891 (when Christopher is still Marley) and 1900, when he's Marley Turnbull at death.
His wife Hannah also makes the change between 1891 and her death:
Hannah Marley-turnbull in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915 Name: Hannah Marley-turnbull Estimated birth year: abt 1825 Registration Year: 1904 Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar Age at Death: 79 Registration district: Auckland Inferred County: Durham Volume: 10a Page: 173
EDIT: No, they seem to switch between one name and the other. Christopher is Turnbull at daughter Mary Jane's marriage in 1887, but then he's Marley again in 1891.
Turnball at daughter Elizabeth's marriage in 1873:
Elizabeth Turnball in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 Name: Elizabeth Turnball Gender: Female Age: 22 Birth Date: 1851 Marriage Date: 30 Aug 1873 Marriage Place: St. Helen, Auckland, Durham, England Father: Christopher Turnball Spouse: James Gregory Bruce FHL Film Number: 1894175 Reference ID: p 242
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ArgyllGran
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31 May 2019 21:53 |
I still don't see how the name Marley comes into it, if the birth posted by Rambling is correct. But born Sept qr of 1878, sale as John &Margaret's marriage - if that means anything!
EDIT:
Aha!
Margaret Scott nee Turnb*ll was born at Spring Gardens, Durham, according to 1891 census.
Christopher Marley in the 1881 England Census Name: Christopher Marley Age: 59 Estimated birth year: abt 1822 Relationship to Head: Head Spouse: Hannah Marley Gender: Male Where born: Coundon, Durham, England Civil Parish: West Auckland County/Island: Durham Country: England Street address: Springardens Road <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Marital status: Married Occupation: Coke Drawer Registration district: Auckland ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Neighbors: Piece: 4926 Folio: 8 Page Number: 10 Household Members: Name Age Christopher Marley 59 Hannah Marley 55 John Marley 24 William Marley 22 Joseph Marley 18 Sarah Hannah Marley 14 Mary Jane Marley 12
This is apparently Christopher's death:
Christopher Marley Turnbull in the England, Select Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991 Name: Christopher Marley Turnbull Gender: Male Age: 78 Birth Date: 1822 Burial Date: 8 Apr 1900 Burial Place: Etherly, Durham, England FHL Film Number: 1514667 Reference ID: It7 P43 No337
This is the daughter Sarah Hannah's marriage:
Sarah Hannah Turnbull in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 Name: Sarah Hannah Turnbull Gender: Female Marital status: Single Age: 19 Birth Date: 1864 Marriage Date: 14 Apr 1883 Marriage Place: St. Anne'S, Auckland-St. Andrew, Durham, England Father: Christopher Turnbull <<<<<<<<<<<< Spouse: William Robinson FHL Film Number: 1894181 Reference ID: 364
And the daughter Mary Jane:
Mary Jane Turnbull in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 Name: Mary Jane Turnbull Gender: Female Age: 19 Birth Date: 1868 Marriage Date: 26 Nov 1887 Marriage Place: Etherley, Durham, England Father: Christopher Turnbull Spouse: John William Moore FHL Film Number: 1514667 Reference ID: Item3 P133 No265
The son Joseph:
Joseph Turnbull in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 Name: Joseph Turnbull Gender: Male Age: 24 Birth Date: 1862 Marriage Date: 20 Nov 1886 Marriage Place: St. Helen, Auckland, Durham, England Father: Christopher Turnbull Spouse: Jane Ellen Nelson FHL Film Number: 1894175 Reference ID: p 100
Joseph also calls himself Turnbull in 1901 and 1911.
Birth of the son of Christopher's son John:
Joseph Marley Turnbull in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 Name: Joseph Marley Turnbull Gender: Male Baptism Date: 15 Apr 1885 Baptism Place: Etherley, Durham, England Father: John Turnbull Mother: Elizabeth FHL Film Number: 1514666
Joseph Marley Turnbull in the 1901 England Census Name: Joseph Marley Turnbull Age: 16 Estimated birth year: abt 1885 Relation to Head: Son Gender: Male Father: John Turnbull Mother: Elizabeth Turnbull Birth Place: Etherley, Durham, England Civil Parish: West Auckland Ecclesiastical parish: Etherley St Cuthbert Town: Etherley County/Island: Durham Country: England Street address: Registration district: Auckland Sub-registration district: Hamsterley ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Neighbors: Piece: 4652 Folio: 5 Page Number: 2 Household schedule number: 10 Household Members: Name Age John Turnbull 42 Elizabeth Turnbull 37 Joseph Marley Turnbull 16 Wm Marley Turnbull 10
And there are various other records for Christopher and family, showing the two names, or a change from Marley to Turnbull.
Here's Margaret with her family in 1871 - mistranscribed:
Margaret Horley in the 1871 England Census Name: Margaret Horley [Margaret Morley] Age: 11 Estimated birth year: abt 1860 Relation: Daughter Father's name: Christopher Horley Mother's name: Hannah Horley Gender: Female Where born: West Auckland, Durham, England Civil Parish: West Auckland Ecclesiastical parish: St Helen Town: West Auckland County/Island: Durham Country: England Registration district: Auckland Sub-registration district: Hamsterley ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Household schedule number: 167 Piece: 4935 Folio: 20 Page Number: 33 Household Members: Name Age Christopher Horley 48 Hannah Horley 47 John Horley 15 William Horley 13 Margaret Horley 11 Joseph Horley 8 Sarah H Horley 4 Mary J Horley 2
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Rambling
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31 May 2019 19:56 |
I'd get the cert for Mary Hannah Marley ?
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SylviaInCanada
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31 May 2019 19:35 |
I can't find a registration on GRO for a Mary Hannah Scott mmn Turnball/Turnbull in 1878 +/- 2 years
No Turnbal/Turnball
There are 2 Mary Hannah Turnbull born in 1877 ....... but with a mmn for each
TURNBULL, MARY HANNAH LINDSLEY GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in DURHAM Volume 10A Page 424
TURNBULL, MARY HANNAH TINDALL GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in HOUGHTON-LE-SPRING Volume 10A Page 537
There are 2 Mary Turnball, no mmn .........
TURNBULL, MARY - GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in HEXHAM Volume 10B Page 311
TURNBULL, MARY ANN - GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in DURHAM Volume 10A Page 446
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SylviaInCanada
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31 May 2019 19:27 |
Was Mary Hannah born before their marriage??
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ArgyllGran
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31 May 2019 18:46 |
???
Marriages Sep 1878 (>99%) SCOTT John Auckland 10a 206 TURNBALL Margret Auckland 10a 206 <<<<<<<<<<<<
John Scott in the 1881 England Census Name: John Scott Age: 24 Estimated birth year: abt 1857 Relationship to Head: Head Spouse: Margaret Scott Gender: Male Where born: Shildon, Durham, England Civil Parish: Auckland St Helen County/Island: Durham Country: England Street address: Square Marital status: Married Occupation: Coal Miner Registration district: Auckland ED, institution, or vessel: 17 Neighbors: Piece: 4916 Folio: 92 Page Number: 30 Household Members: Name Age John Scott 24 Margaret Scott 21 Mary H. Scott 2 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
John Scott in the 1891 England Census Name: John Scott Gender: Male Age: 34 Relationship: Head Birth Year: 1857 Spouse: Margaret Scott Child: Mary H Scott Birth Place: Old Shildon, Durham, England Civil Parish: Auckland St Helen Residence Place: St Helen Auckland, Auckland St Helen, Durham, England Sub registration district: Bishop Auckland ED, Institution or Vessel: 14 Neighbors: Piece: 4069 Folio: 32 Household Members: Name Age John Scott 34 Margaret Scott 30 Mary H Scott 12
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greyghost
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31 May 2019 18:01 |
More confusion ?
Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page Births Dec 1914 (>99%) HUNTINGTON James Scott Auckland 10a 432
Births Mar 1918 Huntington Eleanor Turnball Auckland 10a 330 (also mmn as Turnbull but same Vol and Page)
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Rambling
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31 May 2019 17:51 |
2 Begland Terrace, Bishop Auckland U.D., Durham, England Francis Catterson 05 Aug 1905 Male Electric Suffer Underground Storekeeper Married 23 1 Minnie Catterson 28 Feb 1902 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 23 2 The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?
Margaret Speed (Catterson) 12 Apr 1905 Female Domestic Duties Single 23 4
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cane
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31 May 2019 17:50 |
Thanks Rambling
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cane
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31 May 2019 17:47 |
Minnie married francis catterson june q 1931 Auckland...please can someone check for them on 1939 register...Thanks
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Rambling
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31 May 2019 17:41 |
1939 which seems to match birthdate
John Huntington 19 Nov 1873 Male Colliery Hewer Retired Married 215 1 Mary H Huntington 26 Jun 1878 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 215 2 Dorothy Huntington 24 Sep 1921 Female Machinist Leather Factory Single 215 3
Dorothy's mmn is also given as Turnbull.
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Rambling
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31 May 2019 17:37 |
Maybe?
MARLEY, MARY HANNAH - GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in AUCKLAND Volume 10A Page 236
Maybe her mother married to one of the alternative surnames?
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cane
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31 May 2019 17:24 |
That's odd.. :-S
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greyghost
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31 May 2019 17:15 |
Not a lot Rambling!!
Wonder what she started as ?
Am wondering if Turnbull was her own Mother - depending on how the question was asked or some such.
Unfortunately tea calls -
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cane
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31 May 2019 17:14 |
Rambling and greyghost Great minds think alike :-)
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Rambling
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31 May 2019 17:09 |
:-) GreyGhost, confusing isn't it!
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