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Yes, it gives father as James Brock, Gamekeeper, and one of the witnesses is Ann Isabella Brock.. Residence at time of marriage is shown as Rufford.

Guess we can take this as a definite eh?

Thanks.

And does it show that she is the right person - ie - James Brock's daughter?

Just for the record, I got the marriage certificate for 'Benjamina' - not easy to read but it looks like 'Beennay Brock' on the certificate. She married Charles Hamblin on 14 Feb 1849.

Duh … why didn't I think of that. I guess this family is just doing my head in.

Thanks, will do.

Personally, I think it's a definite!

But a copy of the marriage cert would confirm it - or not.

Thanks AG … this family is driving me nuts!

It looks like you're onto something there. The Bunny/Benjamina/Benny in the various census have him/her born in Scotland which is where the birth was. It's not a 'for sure' but it does look like a 'more than likely'. What a mess … great job, thanks.

In 1881 and 1891 she's called Benjamina:

Benjamina Hamblin
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Benjamina Hamblin
Gender: Female
Age: 64
Relationship: Wife
Birth Year: 1827
Spouse: Charles Hamblin
Child: Clara Hamblin
Charles Hamblin
Birth Place: Scotland
Civil Parish: Great Badminton
Residence Place: Great Badminton, Great Badminton, Gloucestershire, England
Sub registration district: Hawkesbury
ED, Institution or Vessel: 7
Neighbors:
Piece: 1996
Folio: 66
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Hamblin 66
Benjamina Hamblin 64
Clara Hamblin 24
Charles Hamblin 22
Mabel Fuller 14


But in all the other censuses it's shortened to Benny or Benney:


Benney Hamblen
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Benney Hamblen
Age: 75
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Scotland
Civil Parish: Tetbury Upton
Ecclesiastical parish: Tetbury St Mary
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Tetbury
Sub-registration district: Tetbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors:
Piece: 2445
Folio: 30
Page Number: 9
Household schedule number: 55
Household Members:
Name Age
Benney Hamblen 75
Charles Hamblen 32


And in 1871 on Ancestry, it's mistranscribed as Bumery !

Benjamin Hamblin of North Tetbury, Gloucestershire, >>>>> WIDOW, <<<<<
died 24 October 1906. Probate London 14 December to Robert Hamblin, gentleman.
Effects £698 11s 10d.


Benjamin Hamblin
in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995
Name: Benjamin Hamblin
Death Date: 24 Oct 1906
Death Place: Gloucestershire, England
Probate Date: 14 Dec 1906
Registry: London, England


Benjamin Hamblin
in the Gloucestershire, England, Church of England Burials, 1813-1988
Name: Benjamin Hamblin (widow of Charles Hamblin) <<<<<<<<<<
Age: 81
Birth Year: abt 1825
Burial Date: 29 Oct 1906
Burial Place: Tetbury, St Mary, Gloucestershire, England
Parish as it Appears: Tetbury


Benjamin Hamblin
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Benjamin Hamblin
Estimated birth year: abt 1825
Registration Year: 1906
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 81
Registration district: Tetbury
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 249

Benjaman (sic) is listed as male on the 1841 census (already posted on page 2)

The mistake could be in either the baptism record or the census! Hard to know.

I've heard of Benjamina as a girl's name.

Benjaman/Banjamin isn't with his/her parents in 1851, 1861, or 1871.


As some of the other siblings seem to have married in Southwell reg district, I'm wondering about this one:

Marriages Mar 1849 (>99%)
Brock Bunney Southwell 15 835 ;
Hamblin Charles Southwell 15 835



Benny Hamblin
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Benny Hamblin
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: 1826
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Charles Hamblin
Where born: Scotland <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Civil Parish: Ordsall
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Registration district: East Retford
Sub-registration district: East Retford
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 37
Piece: 2416
Folio: 111
Page Number: 7
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Hamblin 36
Benny Hamblin 35
Fanny Hamblin 12
Isabella Hamblin 10
Ann Hamblin 8
Robert Hamblin 6
Harriett Hamblin 4
Lucy Hamblin 2
Eliza Ann Hamblin 9/12

Here's another one for you. I've just looked at the birth of another sibling to Mary on ScotlandsPeople, this one for 'Benjamin' and I quote:

Banjamin daughter to James Brock and Isabella Embelton his wife born at High Belchristen?? 2 Dec 1825 and baptised 23 January 1826.

Have you ever heard of Banjamin being a girl's name or is this yet another item wrongly recorded?

I tend to agree with you AQ and AG that it's Mary's entry that is wrongly recorded. I think we can safely assume she was born in 1821 or 1822. Phew, glad it wasn't a miracle birth!

Thanks.

Good work AG- I suspected as much. More than a year between Mary's christening and Hanah's birth- so not a miracle birth!

It has definitely been written wrongly in the parish record.

It was bugging me, so I had a look myself .

The christening date was 16 March 1823, so the birth must have been Dec 1822 (or even some earlier year - going by all the census records, I would guess 1821).

It's a mistake by whoever wrote the record.

We'll never know her actual DOB for sure.

Does it give a date for Mary's Christening? It would be unusual for the date of entry to be the same as the birth date.

As you say, as birth dates they are not possible. I still suspect that it is Mary's entry that is recorded wrongly.

Interesting … I splashed out and bought credits on ScotlandsPeople. The entry for Mary Brock says:

Mary daughter to James Brock and Isabella Embleton his wife born at High Belchristen?? 22 Dec 1823.

It turns out that Hanah and Ann Isabella are twins and the entry for them is dated 3 May 1824 and says:

Hanah and Anna Isabella twin daughters to James and Isabella Embleton his wife born at High Belchristen 21 March and certified this day.

This must be the shortest full term pregnancy ever!!!

I honestly don't know where to go from here.

Looking at the census info, I think it's likely that Mary was born before Dec 1823:

1851:
Name: Mary Herod
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1823
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Scotland
Civil Parish: Rufford
------------------------

1861:
Name: Mary Herod
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: 1822
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Samuel Herod
Gender: Female
Where born: Scotland
Civil Parish: Rufford
-------------------

1871:
Name: Mary Herod
Age: 51
Estimated birth year: abt 1820
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Samuel Herod
Gender: Female
Where born: Scotland
Civil Parish: Rufford
-----------------------------

1881:
Name: Mary Herrod
[Mary Herod]
Age: 60
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: Samuel Herrod
Gender: Female
Where born: Scotland
Civil Parish: Rufford
------------------------

1891:
Name: Mary Herod
Gender: Female
Age: 70
Relationship: Wife
Birth Year: 1821
Spouse: Samuel Herod
Child: Mary Herod
Birth Place: Ayrshire, Scotland
Civil Parish: Rufford
-------------------

1901:
Name: Mary Herod
Age: 79
Estimated birth year: abt 1822
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Spouse: Samuel Herod
Birth Place: Scotland
Civil Parish: Rufford
------------------------

Death:
Name: Mary Herod
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Registration Year: 1911
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 90
Registration district: Southwell
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b Page: 263

Perhaps one date is a mistranscription.

As AQ says - best to look at the original.

Bear in mind that these are church records, and so some dates transcribed may be christening dates rather than actual birth dates, even if the transcription says birth date.

It might wise to check to original images on Scotlandspeople:

BROCK ANN ISOBELLA
Parents: JAMES BROCK/ISABELLA EMBLETON
date: 21/03/1824
Kirkoswald


BROCK HANAH
Parents: JAMES BROCK/ISABELLA EMBLETON
Date: 21/03/1824
Kirkoswald


BROCK MARY
Parents: JAMES BROCK/ISABELLE EMBLETON
Date: 22/12/1823
Kirkoswald
----------------------------

Name: Frederick Edward Brock
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 15 Sep 1818
Baptism Date: 6 Jun 1819
Baptism Place: Ancroft,Northumberland,England
Father: James Brock
Mother: Isabella
FHL Film Number: 252562

I'm adding to this post because I don't want to have to go through it all again.

I've been looking at James Brock snr., married to Isabella Embleton and their children. The first child I found was Mary Brock and on familysearch the birth was given as 22 Dec 1823 in Kirkoswald, Ayrshire, parents James Brock and Isabella Embleton.
The second child was Ann Isabella and her date of birth was given as 21 Mar 1824.

How can this be?

Thanks AG ... he was definitely quite a lad.