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Was this a second child of Daniel Moss Pattle and Elizabeth Darby? Remember Daniel had a brother named Alexander.

I didn't find a baptism.

Name: Alexander Pattle
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 13 Sep 1795
Burial Place: Badwell Ash, Suffolk
Father: Daniel Pattle
Mother: Elizabeth
FHL Film Number: 887399

Could be the brother's burial. Maybe Mary died and Daniel remarried? Apologies if this has already been posted...

Name: Danl Pattle
Gender: Male
Marriage License Age: 25
Record Type: License
Birth Date: abt 1739
License Date: 19 Sep 1764
License Place: Suffolk, England
Spouse: Mary Moss
Reference Number: CS 410.H3 Vol 70
Roll: 990416_1419

Hi Christina,

I had posted brother Alexander's baptism on page 3, with parents Daniel and Mary. Alexander would have been 25 by 1795, so unlikely as an adult to have his parentage listed.

Given Daniel Pattle jr (or should it be III?) was born late 1793 or early 1794, I suspect Alexander was an infant, and may have died before a baptism was arranged.

Source Suffolk Baptism Index (Part 4)
Record set Suffolk Baptism Index 1538-1911
First name(s) Alexander
Last name Pattle
Baptism year 1770
Relationship Son
County Suffolk
Country England
Place Walsham Le Willows
Mother's first name(s) Mary
Father's first name(s) Daniel
Baptism date 16 Feb 1770
Parish St Mary
Residence -
Notes
bn 10 Jan 1763
Entry No 7/6
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records


and noted Mary and Daniel's marriage thereafter:

First name(s) Daniel
Last name Pattle
Marriage year 1764
Marriage date 20 Sep 1764
Marriage place Badwell Ash
Spouse's first name(s) Mary<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse's last name Moss<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Groom's parish Walsham le Willow
County Suffolk
Country England
Record set Suffolk Marriage Index
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain

I was taken by the fact that one of Daniel Pattle and Mary Moss's children (Harriet) had married a Chinery, Daniel and Mary named a son Daniel Moss Pattle, and that spinster Ann Chenery had a son called Alfred Moss Chenery amongst the brood she had baptised in a job lot on 6th Nov 1817.

So my speculation was that Daniel and Mary were probably the grandparents of Edwin Chenery in the baptism you found in 1817, to unmarried mother Ann Chenery.

It was later when I found Daniel Moss Pattle was a soldier, like 'Pattle Chinery' on Edwin's marriage cert, that I began to feel Daniel was our man (or rather, Susan's man).

I wish we had some way of knowing the birth order of the five children. If Alfred Moss was the first, and Edwin the last, I'd be tempted to speculate the whole brood was fathered by a Pattle, almost certainly Daniel Moss.

However if Alfred Moss and Edwin come together at the end, or even in the middle of the sequence, Ann may have had more than one father to her children.
Barnard Peregrine sounds quite fanciful, but haven't got anywhere with that.

Morning,

I am working my way through at and looking at George Goode Married to Elizabeth Stannard.

Info confirmed with yours -
1841 Census
1851 Census
1861 Census
Not found in 1871 - possibly died?

Baptism 10/06/1810

I have been looking for his death for the last hour and cannot seem to find any thing. I have search death records and burial records but nothing seems to match. Did anyone manage to see anything relevant on your searches?
Thanks

Not finding anything yet. :-(

A child for Daniel and Mary Pattle that I missed as not in Waltham le Willows, but in Elmswell, where Daniel Moss Pattle later lived.

Their last born child?


England Births and Christenings
Name George Pattle
Gender Male
Christening Date 04 Dec 1784
Christening Date (Original) 04 DEC 1784
Christening Place Elmswell, England
Father's Name Daniel Pattle
Mother's Name Mary Pattle

No sign of him in the military.

This may have been his death as an infant:

First name(s) George
Last name Pattle
Birth year -
Death year 1785
Burial year 1785
Burial date 01 May 1785
Church St Mary
Denomination Anglican
Place Badwell Ash
County Suffolk
Country England
Record set National Burial Index For England & Wales

And the penultimate child?

Source Suffolk Baptism Index (Part 4)
Record set Suffolk Baptism Index 1538-1911
First name(s) John
Last name Pattle
Baptism year 1781
Relationship Son
County Suffolk
Country England
Place Elmswell
Mother's first name(s) Mary
Father's first name(s) Daniel
Baptism date 02 Feb 1781
Parish St John the Divine
Residence -
Entry No 32/6
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records

EDIT: A John Pattle is listed as a POW in the Napoleonic Wars. No indication of birthplace given. he would have been aged c14 if it was him.

Re the fact that at some point Daniel Moss Pattle served with the Norfolk Fensibles Cavalry.

Full text of "Records of the Norfolk Yeomanry Cavalry, to which is added the fencible and provisional Cavalry

https://bit.ly/2RQOPKn

might be of interest .

They seem to have been first raised in 1794:

Norfolk Regiment of Fencible Cavalry [first known as Colonel Harbord, His Regiment of Fencible Cavalry) 6 troops 10 April 1794

LCCmdt W. Asheton Harbord


Hart's Annual Army List, Militia List, and Imperial Yeomanry List 1843

lists Daniel Moss Pattle as a Quarter master, but gives no dates as to when he went on half pay.

https://bit.ly/2yCtaMR

Goggling will no doubt reveal more about the Fensibles.

So far the only possible child of Ann Chinery's batch baptisms in 1817 ( Edwin, Barnard Peregrine, Alfred Moss, William and Julia),married after 1837 is Julia ( we already have Edwin's marriage details, with father named Pattle Chinery)

Barnard/Bernard and Alfred both married before 1837, so had no need to come up with information about a father.

I though it would be interesting to see what Julia said about a father, as she didn't have one when she was baptised!

She describes her Father as DANIEL Chinery, a liquor merchant. She is simply listed as 'of full age'.

Husband Charles Thomas Taylor is a widower, a pianoforte maker of 2 Chadwell Ct, Julia's address is 1 Chadwell St. Witnesses are Charles Ell and Ann Edwards.

Name: Julia Chinery
Gender: Female
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 20 Feb 1841
Marriage Place: St James, Clerkenwell, Islington, England
Father: Daniel Chinery<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse: Charles Thomas Nicholas
Register Type: Parish Register

In census 1851 she is born c1808 Bury St Edmunds

Name: Julia Nicholas
[Julia Chinery]
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1808
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Charles T Nicholas
Gender: Female
Where born: Bury St Edmunds
Civil Parish: Clerkenwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

In 1871 she is born c1809 Wetherden.

Name: Julia Nicholas
[Julia Chinery]
Age: 62
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Wetherden, Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: Chelsworth
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Registration district: Cosford
Sub-registration district: Lavenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 26
Piece: 1720
Folio: 48
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Julia Nicholas 62

Barnard/Bernard's marriage:


First name(s) Barnard
Last name Chinery
Marriage year 1835
Marriage date 09 Aug 1835
Marriage place Woolpit
Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth
Spouse's last name Gooch
Groom's parish Pakenham
County Suffolk
Country England
Record set Suffolk Marriage Index
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain

In census 1851.

On the image his place of birth is recorded as Whetherden [sic] Suffolk

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Littlebury, Saffron Walden, Essex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Bernard Chinery Head Married Male 45 1806 Journeyman Miller Suffolk, England<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Elizabeth Chinery Wife Married Female 35 1816 Dressmaker & Milliner Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Walter Chinery Son - Male 13 1838 - Littlebury, Essex, England
Edgar Chinery Son - Male 11 1840 - Littlebury, Essex, England
Julia Chinery Daughter - Female 9 1842 - Littlebury, Essex, England
Herbert Chinery Son - Male 7 1844 - Littlebury, Essex, England

I think this is the marriage of Alfred [Moss] Chinery:

First name(s) Alfred
Last name Chinery
Marriage year 1831
Marriage date 24 May 1831
Marriage place Chelsworth
Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth
Spouse's last name Dent
County Suffolk
Country England
Record set Suffolk Marriage Index
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages

In 1851, Alfred says he is born Wetherden c1807.

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Public Thorofare, Chelsworth, Cosford, Suffolk, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Alfred Chinery Head Married Male 44 1807 Ag Lab Wetherden, Suffolk, England<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Elizabeth Chinery Wife Married Female 43 1808 - Little Waldingfield, Suffolk, England
Alfred Chinery Son Unmarried Male 11 1840 - Chelsworth, Suffolk, England
Elizabeth Chinery Daughter Unmarried Female 8 1843 - Chelsworth, Suffolk, England
Robert Chinery Son Unmarried Male 6 1845 - Chelsworth, Suffolk, England
Charles Chinery Son Unmarried Male 3 1848 - Chelsworth, Suffolk, England
Walter Chinery Son Unmarried Male 1 1850 - Chelsworth, Suffolk, England

I have found some William Chinerys, but can't identify any of them for certain as the one Anne had baptised with the rest of the job lot 6th Nov 1817 at Woolpit, which is approx 3 miles from Wetherden where most of the children later say ( in censuses) they were born.

Eureka!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Following on from Julia's description of her father as DANIEL Chinery LIQUOR MERCHANT,

I found this newspaper extract about Daniel Moss Prattle as a Liquor Merchant...

upwards ; a fresh as.'ortm° r - I of Monitor? for young ladies ; also the much apjrtuw I Patent Military Socks. _^ "DANIEL MOSS PATTLE, LIQUOR MERCHANT, at WETHERDiiN, HAVING taken the above Business _c j Mr. JOHN HOWE, most respectfully soto» | a continuance

Will send a snip of the article.

Took a while, but have now sent the snip of the column.

I believe that Daniel Moss Pattle was the father of at least 3, and probably all, of spinster Ann Chenery's children that were baptised in a job lot in Nov 1817.

Note her son Alfred was called Alfred Moss Chenery at time of baptism.

Ann's son Edwin/Edward calls his 'father' Pattle' Chinery, occupation soldier on his marriage cert.

Ann's daur Julia calls her 'father' Daniel Chenery, Liquor merchant on her marriage cert.

Daniel Moss Pattle took over a liquor merchant's business in 1804, and is recorded in various Army lists as a Quarter Master for the Norfolk Fensibles.

Daniel Moss Pattle took over the liquor business in Wetherden, where Julia, Barnard/Bernard, and Alfred all claim to be born according to various censuses.

Wetherden is only about 3 miles from Woolpit, where Ann had the job lot of children baptised in Nov 1817,

There is also the link between Daniel's sister Harriet Pattle, and her husband William Chinery/Chenery, who was almost certainly the William who was Ann's brother, as posted on page 3 of this thread.

EDIT:

"Retirement for an officer was not available until 1871; instead, an officer could go on half-pay, which meant that he retained his commission and was available for future service but no longer active"

which means he could probably engage in another occupation, such as liquor merchant, in the meantime....

EDIT: Daniel Moss Pattle was unable to marry Ann Chinery, as he was already married to Elizabeth Darby, who outlived him.

The marriage may not have been happy; they were living apart by 1841, and it looks like only two children were born, early on in the marriage, Daniel Jr who was baptised within 71/2 months of the wedding, and the Alexander Pattle who was buried in 1795.

Suffolk Archives have a couple of documents relating to the Pattles.

Daniel Moss Pattle's marriage licence, showing Elizabeth was a minor and he was a yeoman.

FAA/23/32/679
Date:
16 Jul 1793
Level:
Item
Description:
yeoman, singleman of Elmswell and singlewoman of Monk Soham. To be married at Monk Soham
Elizabeth Darby, mother of Elizabeth, a minor
Access Status:
Open
Contact:
Suffolk Record Office Ipswich Branch, Gatacre Road, Ipswich, Suffolk, IP1 2LQ

also the will of Daniel Pattle, his father:

Original Will of Daniel Pattle of Woolpit

died 1816.

Held At:
Suffolk Record Office
Reference Number:
IC/500/1/270/26
Date:
1816
Level:
Item
Access Status:
Open
Contact:
Suffolk Record Office Bury St Edmunds Branch, 77 Raingate Street, Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk IP33 2AR

https://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk/probate-records/pre-1858-wills/


also:

Tenement , formerly the 'Woolpack' Inn and land in Woolpit

Suffolk Record Office
Reference Number:
HB8/5/437
Date:
1736 - 1816
Level:
Item
Extent:
4 docs
Description:
Premises lie on the road leading from Woolpit to Stowmarket and abut on Woolpit churchyard.
Conveyance by bargain and sale from the executors of the will of Daniel Pattle of Badwell Ash, farmer, to William Craske of Woolpit, farmer. 5 Oct 1816
Access Status:
Open
Contact:
Suffolk Record Office Ipswich Branch, Gatacre Road, Ipswich, Suffolk, IP1 2LQ

So it looks like Daniel came from a reasonably well off background.

Did Daniel Moss Pattle's brother, Robert, baptism 1767 posted earlier, marry the sister of Elizabeth Darby, Daniel Moss Pattle's wife?

In both instances, the mother of the prospective bride is an Elizabeth Darby.

Held At:
Suffolk Record Office
Reference Number:
FAA/23/33/54
Date:
31 Aug 1794
Level:
Item
Description:
Singleman and yeoman of Sibton, and singlewoman of Monk Soham. To be married at Monk Soham. Elizabeth Darby mother of Sarah.
Access Status:
Open
Contact:
Suffolk Record Office Ipswich Branch, Gatacre Road, Ipswich, Suffolk, IP1 2LQ

Hi,

I am still working on the Goode Side and have so far agreed with you guys for George Goode, Elizabeth Stannard, Thomas Goode and then I get to Anne (Ann) Pegg. I have done a search for a baptism for Anne Pegg in Suffolk and got 2 possibilities one in 1813 which is to late and one in 1788 Copied below) which would fit with the 1841 census which puts her around 70. I would have though this to be a good shout for her as Rattlesden is only down the road from Wetherden and Haughley. However I took a look at the other trees on ancestry with this Ann Pegg on and they all have the parents as Samuel and Mary but I cannot locate this in any evidence.Thomas and Anne do call their children Samuel and Mary so makes sense. So I am once again lost. Any ideas? I have contacted some of the people with them in their tree to see if they have any evidence for the parents.
Baptism I found -
Suffolk Baptism Index (part 3)
First Name Ann
Last Name Pegg
Collections from England, Great Britain
Country England
Category Births, Marriages & Deaths
Record collection Parish Baptisms
Record set
County Suffolk
Year 1788
Mother Elizabeth
Father William
First Names Ann
Month Jan
Birth Year 1788
Parish Rattlesden, St Nicholas
Place Rattlesden
Abode
Notes late GOYMER
Year 1788
Occupation
Relationship Daughter
Entry Number
Day 23
Transcriptions © Suffolk Family History Society

Some of the trees link to this baptism but it seems unlikely that in 1760's people would have made such journeys.

Derbyshire, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812


NameAnn Pegg
GenderFemale
Event TypeBaptismBaptism
Date25 Dec 1782
Baptism PlaceSutton on the Hill, Derbyshire, EnglandPhillimore
FatherSamuel Pegg
MotherMary Pegg
Household Members
NameAge
Name
Ann Pegg
Name
Mary Pegg
Name
Samuel Pegg

Actually thinking about it 1788 is also quite late if she got married in 1791. Would need to be more likely me 1768. Wish we could see the originals. Maybe a little holiday. Ha ha.

?????

Wonderig about this one , 4 miles from Wetherden.

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name Anne Peg<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Gender Female
Christening Date 26 Nov 1769
Christening Date (Original) 26 NOV 1769<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Christening Place Onehouse, Suffolk, England
Father's Name Samuel Peg<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mother's Name Mary<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


also in Suffolk baptisms:

First name(s) Anne
Last name Peg
Birth year 1769
Baptism year 1769
Baptism date 28 Nov 1769
Parish Onehouse, St John the Baptist
Place Onehouse
Relationship Daughter
Father's first name(s) Samuel
Mothers first name(s) Mary
County Suffolk
Country England
Source Suffolk Baptism Index (Part 3)
Record set Suffolk Baptism Index 1538-1911
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Rec

Would make her c 22yrs when she married.

Might this be her death?

First name(s) Ann
Last name Goode
Age 81
Birth year 1768<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Death year 1849
Burial year 1849
Burial date 31 Jan 1849
Church St Mary
Denomination Anglican
Place Wetherden
County Suffolk
Country England
Record set National Burial Index For England & Wales
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records

Death of husband Thomas in same location later that year?

First name(s) Thomas
Last name Goode
Age 82
Birth year 1767<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Death year 1849
Burial year 1849
Burial date 23 Sep 1849
Church St Mary
Denomination Anglican
Place Wetherden
County Suffolk
Country England
Record set National Burial Index For England & Wales
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Burials

Baptism for Thomas? ( can't remember if posted already)

First name(s) Thomas
Last name Goode
Birth year 1768
Baptism year 1768
Baptism date 20 Nov 1768<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Parish Wetherden, St Mary
Place Wetherden
Relationship Son
Father's first name(s) William
Mothers first name(s) Anne
County Suffolk
Country England
Source Suffolk Baptism Index (Part 3)
Record set Suffolk Baptism Index 1538-1911

Marriage for Samuel and Mary?

First name(s) Samuel<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Last name Pegg<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Marriage year 1765
Marriage date 25 Nov 1765
Marriage place Wetherden
Spouse's first name(s) Mary<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse's last name Munnings<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Groom's parish Haughley
County Suffolk
Country England
Record set Suffolk Marriage Index
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain

They have most of their children baptised at Onehouse, but a daughter Mary at Wetherden, and a son Isaac at nearby Shelland.