Find Ancestors

In the original post the afther was WALTER -

My grandad was 66 when he died. His name Sampson Maynard Hall, no father on birth cert 1917. Would like to know any siblings he had. His father was Walter Hall married to Emily Hiom (1911 19th march).

later in the thread you changed your mind and said he was ARTHUR


Still trying to find Arthur/Archie edward Wheeler Hall dob is 1914, paddington, but have no more info, his dad had same name Wheeler without Hall obv i have his DOB as 1895 ...


There seems to be an awful lot of guesswork and gossip involved in this, which makes finding info very difficult

Purely as a source of amusement, I've just looked on Ancestry and a tree on there has Emily Hiom and some family members. The ludicrous part is that her marriage to Walter Hall in 1911 is recorded, but he is said to have died BEFORE 1901.

THIS is the man born 1895 - in my opinion, he has no connection whatever with Emily

Name: Arthur Edgar Warren Hall
Age in 1911: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1895
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Barnes, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Barnes
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: 18 Grove Road, Barnes, Surrey SW
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Apprentice Silk Agent
Registration district: Richmond
Registration District Number: 41
Sub-registration district: Mortlake
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Household schedule number: 152
Piece: 3621
Household Members:
Name Age
George Piggott Hall 59
Julia Kate Hall 50
George Macdonald Hall 35
Arthur Edgar Warren Hall 16
Harry Francis 30

Name: Arthur E W Hall
Death Age: 70
Birth Date: abt 1895
Registration Date: Dec 1965
Registration district: Richmond upon Thames
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5d
Page: 736

Births Jun 1895 (>99%)
Hall Arthur E W Richmond 2a Jun/27***

Births Jun 1927 (>99%)
Hall Arthur E W Warren Richmond S. 2a 903 Re-registered because his parents married after his birth

Marriages Jun 1896 (>99%)
Hall George Pigott Wandsworth 1d 1056
Warren Julia Kate Wandsworth 1d 1056

Name: Walter Hall
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 28
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1883
Marriage Date: 19 Mar 1911
Marriage Place: Maida Hill, Westminster, England
Father: George Frederick Hall
Spouse: Emily Hiom
Father: Thomas Hiom
Register Type: Parish Register

Yes, malyon, as posted on page one.

is this arthur's birth

Births Jun 1914 (>99%)
HALL Arthur E W Hiom Paddington 1a 66

Do we know approximately when his son visited him at the cafe i.e. his year of death?

Dea x

It seems a little unlikely- although entirely possible- that someone born 1914 was fathering a child in 1980. Are you 100% sure of your dates?

Not doubting you - just checking

??????

1939 REGISTER TRANSCRIPTION
Harwood Household (4 People)
173 St Pauls Avenue , Harrow U.D., Middlesex, England

Arthur Wheeler
DOB
01 Jan 1880
SEX
Male
OCCUPATION
Café Owner
MARITAL STATUS
Married
SCHEDULE
235
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
4

Elizabeth Ellen (Eleanor E) Harwood
DOB
27 Jun 1888
SEX
Female
OCCUPATION
Unpaid Domestic Duties
MARITAL STATUS
Widowed
SCHEDULE
235
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
1

Alfred Harwood
DOB
14 Jun 1918
SEX
Male
OCCUPATION
Postal Sorter
MARITAL STATUS
Single
SCHEDULE
235
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
2

Robert Harwood
DOB
24 Jan 1919
SEX
Male
OCCUPATION
Postal Sorter
MARITAL STATUS
Single
SCHEDULE
235
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
3

Thank you MAddie but no sadly, Arthur edward wheeler hall was born in paddington 1914, his father Arthur wheeler born abt 1895 was the one who later on had this cafe in Neasden. I wish i knew more, even looked on the BMD site and theres loads of could be's as his son born 1980 approx was known as Tony, not sure if his cert says antony anthony or tony :-/

1939 ???
Arthur E Hall

in the 1939 England and Wales Register
View 1939 England and Wales Register

Report issue

Name: Arthur E Hall
Gender: Male
Marital status: Single
Birth Date: 17 Apr 1914
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 376A Neasden Lane
Residence Place: Willesden, Middlesex, England
Occupation: Fruiterer Shop Assistant
Schedule Number: 46
Sub Schedule Number: 4
Enumeration District: BXJT
Registration district: 129-2
Household Members:
Name
George H Clark
Margaret Fordnce Clark
This record is officially closed.
Arthur E Hall

Still trying to find Arthur/Archie edward Wheeler Hall dob is 1914, paddington, but have no more info, his dad had same name Wheeler without Hall obv i have his DOB as 1895 .... I was told that Arthur senior didnt know he had a son, im told his sons name is Tony im guessing would be Hall as they all took that name his dob would be 1980, not sure on marriages / areas on any or anything else...apart from the Arthur senior had a cafe in Neasden where he met his son for the first asnd last time as he died that night... Thank you for all your help.

Oh AusitnQ, yes the info was same as the marriage cert too :-)

Hey AustinQ thank you... so did it say who signed the death cert? Can i ask how you get your info? Either im being thick or you are joined to more than me :-)

Im trying to figure out how to find Arthuredarwd wheeler hall db - 1914... son Tony, would i need to order all the certificates ? Or is there a way without doing that ?

Thank you again ill print this info out too...

Ps, i was told that arthur walked into a cafe and his dad (Arthur Wheeler)owned the cafe in neasden, and recognised him as they looked identical apparently, anyway they talked all day that day..... the next day arthur junior went back to find it closed...... he later found out that day he met his bio father had died.... anyway so thats just another reason id like to find any more living relatives if i can :-)

Emily on 1928 electoral register- looks to be a shared dwelling (Mark Moon possible witness to marriage):

42 Medina Road, Islington
Alfred Clark
Emily Hall
Francis Richard Hudson
Mark Moon
Henry Pitt
Lily Pitt
William Harold Walter

This is Thomas George Kay- father David, an upholsterer (same as on marriage)? Looks like he was still living when Emily remarried:

Baptism:
Name: Thomas George Key
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 25 Feb 1903
Born: 22nd Nov 1902
Baptism Place: Battle Bridge All Saints, Islington, England
Father: David Key (upholsterer)
Mother: Irene Key
Abode: 14 Caledonian Crescent
--------------------------------

On 1934 electoral register, living with his parents:

59 Huntingdon Street, Islington
David Kay
Irene Kay
Reginald Kay
Stanley Kay
Thomas George Kay
William Kay
-------------------------------------------

Thomas in 1939 register:

Name: Thomas G Kay
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 22 Nov 1902
Residence Year: 1939
Address: Portsoken St. Formerly Swan Street. L.C.C School, A.R.P Stretcher Depot
Residence Place: City of London, London, England
Occupation: General Labourer Heavy Works
----------------------------

Death:
Name: Thomas George Kay
Death Age: 78
Birth Date: 22 Nov 1902
Registration Date: Dec 1980
Registration district: Lewisham
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 14
Page: 0741

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Mar 1930 (>99%)
Kay Thomas C A 61 Islington 1b 273

Marriage 26 sept 1928
Thomas george kay, age 26, bachelor, engineer, 59 huntingdon street? fathers name david kay upholsterer,

Emily hall, age 31, widow, 42 medina road, father thomas hiom deceased horsekeeper.

witneseses M J Moon & H J Ettridge
ISLINGTON
##################################
marriage 7 feb 1945
arthur john poyton age 50, widower, clark ministry of supply depot?, 43 oaklands ave edmonton, father john poyton deceased, gil and colourman? could be Tie?

Emily kay, 48, widow, 43 oaklands ave, father thomas hiom deceased, horsekeeper

Witnesses, E warne (daughter emily warne) & H . childs... its faint so not too sure

Hi rootgatherer, I have 2 of her marriage certificates after hall......being her married to Hall as prev HIOM, then Hall to kay stating shes a widow..... then kay to poyton stating shes a widow.... she died 5 years later...i did look at the paper archives but no joy either....thank you for reading and helping...

Hi AustinQ
I had completely missed that, I assumed it would have been his wife being another Emily, wow... my cousins i recently have found and met thanks to ur guys help, have mentioned joseph was the landlord and they all lived upstairs and he had the downstairs.....am i able to scan it in or not? thank you so much for your help...

It's also possible that she lived as married with Arthur Tyas. On the 1939 electoral roll Emily is possibly listed with surname Tyas.

Copied from my earlier post:

1939
43 Oaklands Avenue, Edmonton
Arthur Tyas
Emily Tyas<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Sampson Maynard Hall
Joseph Harvey
---------------------------------

This is the same address on the 1939 register:

43 Oaklands Avenue, Edmonton
Emily Kay (later Poyton) born 5th Oct1893, married, Housewife
Emily Hall (later Warne) born 20th Jan 1920, single home duties
Arthur Tyas born 26 Oct 1876, widowed, bricklayer
Henry Ettrdge born 25th Jan 1881, married, sewing mechanic
----------------------------

It looks as though Arthur married widow Emma Turner (nee Flutter) in 1912. She died in 1928 (they had sons Albert and James). Arthur died in 1942 (Under Joseph Arthur Tyas).

If the Emily Tyas listed on the electoral roll is Emily (Hiom) she was living with Arthur from at least 1934. I wonder if she didn't marry Arthur due to her husband, Thomas G Kay, still being alive?

Looking at the death registers I don't see a likely death for a Thomas G Kay before Emily remarried in 1945. There is a Thomas G Kay living in the Islington area, but I don't see him with Emily.

Do you have her 1945 marriage certificate? Is she listed as widowed?
It might be easier if you post all the details of the 1928 and 1945 marriages (including witnesses and adresses).

As her second and third marriages were both using her married name she would either be widowed or divorced presumably. Do you have ALL her marriage certificates please? Have you looked for deaths of her first and second husband please?

I'm not seeing anything obvious on the newspaper archives but it may not have made the newspapers or perhaps only a line or two in the local newspaper.