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found an annie maria worsley born in Faversham in 1886 also. so they are the same age , both Annie's I mean. and both named annie maria , this is so confusing .!!! :-S

I'd be inclined to think this is the correct death

Serjeant
FEAVER, ALFRED HENRY
Service Number 6301
Died 03/09/1918
Aged 34
1st Bn. Hampshire Regiment
M M

Son of George William and Sarah Jane Feaver, of Isle of Wight; husband of Annie M. Feaver, of Deenon St., Teynham, Kent.

Buried LIGNY-ST. FLOCHEL BRITISH CEMETERY, AVERDOINGT
IV. B. 9.

Considering his parents lived on the IoW, this is likely to be his birth.

First name(s) Alfred Henry
Last name Feaver
Birth year 1884
Birth quarter 2
District Isle of Wight
County Hampshire
Country England
Volume 2B
Page 607
....

I'd ignore the Feaver route and concentrate on the original Fever.

If your focus starts with Norman, have you purchased a copy of his BC? A 'normal address' could be a relative of his mother.

yes, we have his birth certificate . also his adoption certificate , adopted in 1927 by Hannah Collins. No clue as to which annie fever is his mother . no father mentioned. . lived at glenwood road in Tottenham which is Edmonton I think ? this is all we know for sure.
so really just trying to figure which annie fever is the correct one .

I had thought that George had been married previously but not sure of this . Could George married to sarah be the same one as the one married to ellen ? or am I going off on a tangent again :-S :-S

we don't know if he lived first with his birth mother or was always living with Hannah collins and her husband William. He has a sister ivy frances primrose Collins born in 1910 who he always thought was his birth sister we think and they did look very much alike. But I think she was the natural child of William Collins and Hannah nee brage , think its brage ?

yes, just checked. Hannah brage marries William Charles Collins in 1883 in Islington. they have a son Charles and also a daughter born in 1910 on the 22 april 1910 named ivy frances primrose Collins

Earlier you said,

"So a certain annie fever married henry baker in 1908 . But I am not sure if the annie fever we see on the 1911 census is a different annie fever to the one who married henry baker in 1908."


The Annie who married Henry Baker is the daughter of Priscilla Wood and Thomas Fever.
Priscilla is with Annie and Henry in 1911, as already posted.


The other Annie - ie - Annie Maria, mms Walker, born Sittingbourne (Milton reg district), daughter of George and Ellen, is the one with Saunders cousin in 1911.

I haven't figured out the Saunders relationship yet.
The Saunders children's mother's ms is Croucher.

This is the birth of George H S [J] Saunders in the 1911 with Sittingbourne Annie:

CROUCHER, GEORGE HENRY JAMES -
GRO Reference: 1866 M Quarter in WEST ASHFORD Volume 02A Page 615


Marriage of parents George [William Henry George] Sa(u)nders and Ellen:

Marriages Sep 1866 (>99%)
Croucher Ellen W. Ashford 2a 981
SAUNDERS William H G W. Ashford 2a 981



(I've rather lost track of this discussion, so maybe that info isn't relevant any longer, but I thought I'd post it just in case.)

Yes,ne too. The basic facts,are , Norman fever was born in 1913 to birth mother Annie fever . No idea,what happens,to him until 1927 when he is adopted by Hannah Collins only , in Edmonton . He was born in same area. So we really don't know which Annie fever is his birth mother , only the address he was born at which i think i posted earlier. Think there are at least three choices for an Annie fever in the area and possible ages. Also this extra Annie Maria worsley who became Annie fever. My friend whose father norman is has been working on the assumption that the correct Annie fever is the one born to George and his wife Ellen walker .
The sounders and croucher info will be useful if we ever manage to prove it to be the correct Annie fever. I think norman himself lived on the same street as Annie fever was living in 1911 ...but not sure if that could be relevant . We are just stuck until we find another clue . All the info has been brilliant and hopefully she will be able to work on this and try to sort it out. But yes, i admit , it does sound confusing and i have probably made it so at times .
:-S

So are you saying the Annie Feaver a cousin at the Saunders house in Glenwood Road is not related to Norman 1913 also of Glenwood Road as stated by you. Or am I reading this all wrong?


Maryb.

Does Norman have a descendant willing to take a DNA test?
Although results might show up relationships to their more recent ancestors, it might give a lead on a previous unknown link for you to follow through.

hi mary
im saying we don't really know. all we have is the birth certificate and the adoption certificate. my friend thought that the lady living on glenwood road in 1911 named annie fever with her cousins could be the mum of norman fever later norman Collins.
Norman lived on that road in the late thirties and forties we think , but obviously this annie fever lived there in 1911 . By that date norman was still single but had been adopted, by Hannah Collins only, (not William ) in 1927.
This date is significant as I think that was the year that adoptions could become official.
My friend , who is the daughter of norman fever(Collins) is wanting to discover which annie fever may be her grandma. But we only have the birth certificate to go on where it says annie fever was a domestic and lived at 9, glenwood road. No father was named on the birth certificate .
She was thinking the annie fever living with the saunders in 1911 was the correct one . We are looking for clues to see if this could be true .
The only other clue she has is that norman always presumed ivy frances primrose Collins born april 1910 in Tottenham was his birth sister . they did look alike but that proves nothing. It looks like she was the child of Hannah and William and my friend has sent for her birth certificate to see if anything on that helps .
My friend has done a lot of research on thi 1911 annie fever living with the saunders thinking it was her but she is now having doubts. hope this clarifies things a little, sorry, it is probably my way of explaning that is not very clear. thanks for all your help so far.
:-S

thanks detective , that is a possibility she may not have thought of. Getting dna done, maybe via ancestry , may help. She wants to find out what happened to her dad from 1913 to 1927 when he was officially adopted and wether he was ever with his birth mum at all . I did think it was strange that only Hannah was down as the person to adopt norman and not William but perhaps this is common. :-)

Just to mention, Hannah Collins herself I think died in 1929, two years after she had officially adopted norman.

1891 7,Glenwood Road Tottenham

Collins William
Hannah
Harry
William
Bernard

So another connection with Glenwood Street.

Maryb.

thanks mary . how old were harry, William and Bernard ? Are they sons of William and Hannah ?
yes , that street seems to be coming up a lot ,
surely n0tt a coincidence ,

Transcript from FMP

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Glenwood Road, Tottenham, Edmonton, Middlesex, England


First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
William Collins Head Married Male 27 1864 Tottenham Middlesex, England Signalman
Hannah Collins Wife Married Female 27 1864 Tottenham Middlesex, England
Harry Collins Son Single Male 7 1884 Stamford Hill , Middlesex, England Scholar
William Collins Son Single Male 5 1886 Holloway Middlesex, England Scholar
Bernard Collins Son Single Male 10 mths, could be weeks, Tottenham , Middlesex, England

Hannah Vyse Drage 1862 to Joseph Drage and Hannah Vyse died 1929 married in 1883 Islington toWilliam Charles Collins died 1938 sons
Harry 1882
William 1885
Bernard 1890
Ernest 1896
Ivy F P Collins 1910 -1987 with Kate Elizabeth Orchard 1939
They both died in Devon of the same address 89.Millhead Road Honiton.

Where was Norman in 1939 register.


Maryb.

You say that Norman's birth cert says Annie lived at 9 Glenwood Road.

In 1911 the Saunders family (plus Annie) were at 9 Glenwood Road.

Ancestry's transcription says 7 Glenwood Road, but it's 9 on the image.

Doesn't that solve the problem - or am I missing something in all this confusion?!

Albert Saunders and Ellen were still there in 1938, also their daughter Lilian and her husband, so chances are that Annie was with them when Norman was born:

Albert Edward Saunders
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Albert Edward Saunders
Year: 1938
County or Borough: Tottenham
Ward or Division/Constituency: Tottenham Green Lanes
Street address: 9 Glenwood Road.-
Reference Number: MR/PER/C/0669

William & Hannah Collins had 8 children. 3 sons and 2 daughters were still living in 1911. Could perhaps one of the sons be Norman's father which is why Hannah adopted him when she was 66 years old - not the usual age to adopt a child or even if he was informally adopted in 1913 she was 50 then.