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Hi
Just wondered if you found anything about Tommy/Thomas Gilmour?

Hi
Sorry it’s taken a while to get back to you but I have to keep re checking names and dates!! This family is not straightforward at all
I have found a baptism entry for Elizabeth McGann she was born 23/11/1888 and baptised 5/12/1888 mother Jane McGann no father.

I have no marriage details for Michael Collins and Jane McGann

Yes Jane is the daughter of Owen McGann and Ann Duffy born in Ireland then moved to Maryport. She must have been a tough girl she worked as a labourer in coal mine it says on a couple of birth certificates!!
Jane Ann McGann b. 1879 no father listed. In the 1891 census she is living with grandparents Owen and Ann.
John McGann B. 1881 no father listed was also with grandparents in 1891
Agnes b. 1882 no father listed
Owen b. 1887 no father listed died in 1887
Lizzie b. 1888 no father listed, but is at home and called Collins in 1901 and 1911 census she seems to be named Eliza or Lizzie.

I don’t think the priest could always spell the names and obviously the parishioners didn’t know if spelling was correct because all names seem to have various spelling McGann mcgahan mcgehen McCann, Gilmore Gilmor, Gilmour, Mcvey, McKay, mcveigh etc

She knows so little about her father calls him Tommy Gilmore, she thinks he was born in Belfast, he worked at the docks, was born around 1890. It’s not much to go on.

Still not seeing Lizzie's birth. Jane's name on the births of all the other children is McCann (not McGann).

You mention two births before the marriage of Michael and Jane- is this their births?

MCGANN, JANE ANN (no mother's maiden name recorded)
GRO Reference: 1879 J Quarter in COCKERMOUTH Volume 10B Page 562

MCGANN, JOHN (no mother's maiden name recorded)
GRO Reference: 1881 D Quarter in COCKERMOUTH Volume 10B Page 510

and them in 1891?

Civil Parish: Crosscanonby
Residence Place: Maryport, Crosscanonby, Cumberland, England
ED, Institution or Vessel: 11
Piece: 4309 Folio: 65
Name Age
Owen McGann 51 Coal trimmer, Ireland
Ann McGann 52 Wife, Ireland
Julia McGann 15 Daughter, dressmaker apprentice, Cumberland
Lizzie McGann 10 Daughter, Scholar Ireland
Jane Ann McGann 11 Daughter, Scholar, Cumberland
John McGann 13 Son Scholar Cumberland
Peter McGann 27 Son Dock labourer, Ireland
Owen McGann 9 Son Cumberland
John Tremble 10 Grandson, Maryport, Cumberland
Dennis Obrien 17 Nephew, coal miner, Cumberland
------------------------------------

Jane with parents 1881:

Civil parish Crosscanonby
County/Island Cumberland
Street Address 3F Court
Occupation Coal Picker (Bank)
Registration district Cockermouth
ED, institution, or vessel 11a
Piece 5180 Folio 79 Page number 18
Name Age
Owen Mc Gehen 42 Head Dock Labourer, Ireland
Ann Mc Gehen 42 Wife Ireland
Peter Mc Gehen 20 son Coal miner Ireland
Jane Mc Gehen 17 Daughter Coal (Bank) Picker Ireland
Catherine Mc Gehen 12 Daughter Scholar Ireland
Margaret Jane Mc Gehen 10 Daughter Scholar Ireland
Julia Mc Gehen 5 Daughter Cumberland
John Mc Gehen 4 Son Cumberland
Lizzie Mc Gehen 1 Daughter Ireland

So Jane was the daughter of Owen McGann and Ann Duffey.
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Also not seeing the marriage of Michael and Jane- do you know when/ if they married?
---------------------------------

As for Thomas Gilmore/ Gilmour- there are several travelling to SA. Does your mother-in-law have any other details on him? Age/ Occupation?

Also Elizabeth Lizzie was born before marriage so name is McGann not Collins!

I wonder if Thomas Gilmore is related to Alexander Gilmore?
I am not sure whether he married Mary Collins/Cotterill
My mother in law says he went to South Africa he wanted to take her with him, as his wife? Could not have children.
Not sure if she was just told this
Thankyou for all your help you have already helped solve a few mysteries!!

It looks like Mona/ Marie returned to the US in later in 1933:

Passenger Lists, 1820-1957

Name: Marie Collins Langley
Arrival date: 27 Aug 1933
Birth Date: abt 1914
Birth Location: Northern Ireland
Birth Location Other: Belfast, Ireland
Age: 19
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Irish
Port of Departure: Glasgow, Scotland
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Caledonia

Nearest UK relative: Mrs Mary Collins, 73 Corporation Street, Belfast
Going to join: Husband Mr John Langley, 534 South Main Street, Portchester, NY

On the naturalisation records for Michael and Emily Collins, there appears to be a mistake on Emily's- giving her date of birth as 1887- this should be 1897 (her birth is stated to be 26 June 1897 on Michael's record).

This is Emily Morrison and her sister Susan in 1901 with their parents:

Residents of a house 2 in Quinn Street (Pottinger, Down)

Morrison Susan 16 Female Daughter Roman Catholice Co Down Ware House Stitcher Not Married -
Morrison Mary Ann 8 Female Daughter Roman Catholice Co Down Scholar Not Married -
Morrison Emily 3 Female Daughter Roman Catholice Co Down Not Married -
Morrison Charles 46 Male Head of Family Father Roman Catholicc Co Tyrone Captin of Lighter Widower -
McVeigh Sarah 36 Female Sister in Law Roman Catholice Co Antrim Housekeeper Not Married -
Morrison Francis 14 Male Son Roman Catholice Co Down Telegraph Messanger Not Married -
Morrison Daniel 10 Male Son Roman Catholice Co Down Scholar
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Emily in 1911- with her sister Susan:

Residents of a house 14 in Spring Street (Ormeau, Down)

Gilmore Alexander 28 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic County Down Able SeamanMarried
Gilmore Susan 25 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Antrim - Married - 2 1 1
Gilmore Letetia Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Down - Single
Morrison Mary 18 Female Sister in Law Roman Catholic Co Down Tobacco Spinner Single
Morrison Emily 13 Female Sister in Law Roman Catholic Co Down Scholar
-----------------------------------------

And this is Emily's birth:

Birth: 24th June 1897 Castlereagh, Belfast
Name: Emily Morrison
Born at 2 Quinn Street
Father: Charles Morrison (lighter man)
Mother: Lucy Morrison (formerly McVeigh)
-------------------------

So it seems that Emily was the sister-in-law of Alexander Gilmore

Was Thomas from the same Gilmore/ Gilmour family as Alex?

On the passenger record, Alex lists his wife as Letitia of 5 Theresa Street.
Her name was actually Susan (nee Morrison). Alex and Susan had daughter Letitia in 1910 Belfast. Letitia travelled to her father in Brooklyn in 1939- her mother, Susan was still residing at 5 Theresa Street.

Alex's marriage:

16th April 1909- St Matthew's, Belfast, Down
Alexander Gilmore (full age, bachelor, labourer)
residence: 42 Douglas St
Father: Alexander Gilmore (dead)

Susan Morrison (full age, spinster)
residence: 46 Harper St.
father: Charles Morrison (labourer)

Witnesses: Mary Boyle & P Hughes
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When Emily married Michael Collins, her surname was Morrison too (so possibly a sister of Susan):

Marriage License Indexes, 1907-1995
Name: Emily Morrison
Gender: Female
Marriage License Date: 21 Apr 1924
Marriage License Place: Brooklyn, New York City, New York, USA
Spouse: Michael Collins
License Number: 5811

Thankyou I didn’t think to look for Marie!
My mother in law has a photo/postcard of her confirmation the address is Mrs j Langley 54 south Main Street portchester? New York USA.
She says was sent to her sister?

I thought Alex Gilmore was Emily’s brother not brother in law? I would like to know more about the Gilmore family too as my mother in laws real father was Thomas Gilmore.

And here she is returning in 1933 under surname Langley:

Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960

Name: Mariee Langley
Arrival Age: 19
Birth Date: abt 1914
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival date: 12 Jun 1933
Port of Arrival: Glasgow, Scotland
Ports of Voyage: New York and Boston
Ship Name: Caledonia
Shipping line: Anchor Line
Official Number: 148878

Address: 61 Corporation Street Belfast
Occ: Housewife

Yes- her name was Marie. This is her travelling to the US in 1930:

Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960

Name: Marie E Collins
Gender: Female
Age: 16
Occ: Domestic
Birth Date: abt 1914
Departure Date: 25 Jan 1930
Port of Departure: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Destination Port: New York, USA
Ship Name: Antonia
Shipping line: Cunard Line
Official Number: 145937
Master: Geo W Melsom

Last address in UK: 61 Corporation Street, Belfast
Name/ Address of nearest relative: Mother: mrs Mary Collins, 61 Corporation Street, Belfast
Passage paid by Grandmother
Final destination: Brooklyn
Going to: Uncle, Mr Michael Collins, Brooklyn

This could be the birth of Mona- under the name Marie?

Birth: October 1913, Belfast, Antrim
Name: Marie Collins
Place of birth: 45 Corporation Street
Mother: Mary Collins (housekeeper)
Informant: (looks like) Mary A Maginess (present at birth- 29 ? Street)
Registered 18th October 1913

The 1930 census gives Mona and Alex Gilmore's year of arrival as 1930. I would have expected them to have travelled together- and although I see Alex travelling in January 1930 to his sister-in-law (Emily Collins) aboard the Scythia, I don't see Mona on the same trip (unless I've missed it).

There is a Mona Langley b1914 travelling from New York to London in 1939- but she is single. I believe she married James Dick in 1942- so not likely to be your Mona. Where did the Langley name come from?

Yes that is Mary’s brother in New York.

I can’t find any other details for Mona at all! Nothing at all in New York, although there is a possibility she married someone called Langley??

In Belfast she married Jim Rice

That looks good safc- that Micheal could be Mary's brother. Still not seeing Mona's birth in Ireland.

And I still can't see Lizzie/ Elizabeth/ Eliza's birth in 1888 County Down. The 1901 census lists her as born Cumberland

????


Mona Collins
United States Census, 1930
Name Mona Collins
Event Type Census
Event Date 1930
Event Place Brooklyn (Districts 1001-1250), Kings, New York, United States
Gender Female
Age 16
Marital Status Single
Race White
Race (Original) White
Relationship to Head of Household Niece
Relationship to Head of Household (Original) Niece
Birth Year (Estimated) 1914
Birthplace Ireland
Immigration Year 1930
Father's Birthplace Ireland
Mother's Birthplace Ireland
Sheet Letter A
Sheet Number 1
Household

Role

Sex

Age

Birthplace
Michael Collins Head M 33 Ireland
Michael Collins Jr. Son M 4 New York
Charles Collins Son M 3 New York
Alexander Gilmore Brother-in-law M 48 Ireland
Mona Collins Niece F 16 Ireland
Citing this Record

"United States Census, 1930," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4NB-CMD : accessed 9 August 2018), Mona Collins in household of Michael Collins, Brooklyn (Districts 1001-1250), Kings, New York, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) ED 1091, sheet 1A, line 49, family 15, NARA microfilm publication T626 (Washington D.C.: National Archives and Recor

Hi
Wow Thankyou for so much information!! Do you share this tree?
Jane had at least 2 children before marriage John McGann (Tremble) 1881 and
Jane Ann McGann (Irdale) 1879
Lizzie was born 1888 in County Down
The family owned a boarding house in Corporation street. Which was blitzed during WW2
I can no trace my mother in laws older sister Mona Collins born 1915 before Mary married William Cotterill. I know she went to New York when she was 16 to visit an Uncle whose wife had just died. She may have married a man called Langley? She returned to Belfast in the 30s and married Jim Rice who had a fish shop in Belfast, they had no children. I am told they married in Belfast but cannot find any record.
Thankyou so much for your help
Carole x

The Irish censuses for 1901 & 1911 are free, so you can download the info and print it off

Mary with her parents 1901 & 1911

1901
Residents of a house 7 in Sheriff Street (Pottinger, Down)

Collins Michael 41 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic County Down Sailor
Collins Jane 37 Female Wife Roman Catholic County Dublin
Collins Eliza 13 Female Daughter Roman Catholic C Cumberland Scholar
Collins Mary 6 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Belfast Scholar
Collins Chatherine 5 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Belfast Scholar
Collins Michael 4 Male Son Roman Catholic Belfast -
Collins John Male Son Roman Catholic Belfast
Mc Conaghy Annie 28 Female Boarder Roman Catholic Co Antrim Seamstress Not Married
----------------------------------

1911
Residents of a house 33 in Corporation Street (St. Anne's Ward, Antrim)

Collins Michael 50 Male Husband Roman Catholic Co Down A B Seaman
Collins Jane 43 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Dublin Married - 25 15 7
Collins Lizzie 22 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Down Laundry Smoother Single
Collins Mary 17 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Down - Single
Collins Kate 15 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Down Wareman Apprentice Single
Collins Michael 14 Male Son Roman Catholic Belfast City Message Boy Single
Collins John 10 Male Son Roman Catholic Belfast City Scholar Single
Collins Jane 8 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Belfast City Scholar Single
Collins Robert 6 Male Son Roman Catholic Belfast City Scholar Single
Ferguson Samuel 68 Male Boarder Presbyterian Co Down Quay Labourer Single
Smyth Frederick 48 Male Boarder Presbyterian England Engineer Ship Yard Single
Keer George 26 Male Boarder Presbyterian Scotland Engineer Ship Yard Single
Willits William 26 Male Boarder Presbyterian England, Barone ?etter Ship Yard Single
------------------------------

I'm not seeing Lizzie's birth in Cumberland- was she born before her parent's married?

Mary's birth -you can search for births of her siblings here:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

Birth: 1st March 1894 Reg district Castlereagh 4, Belfast, County Down
Name: Mary Collins
Born 7 Seaforde Street
Father: Michael Collins (Sailor)
Mother: Jane McCann
Informant: Susan Boyle (present at birth- 63 Mountpollinger Road)
Registered 14th March 1894
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Lizzie/ Elizabeth Collins married John Butler (seaman) July 10th 1915 Belfast
Catherine Collins married Hugh Valledy? (sailor) Sept 13th 1919
Jane COllins married John Edmund Bradley (woodworker) April 1925

William Cotterill and Mary Collins married in 1917 Belfast:

Marriage: 21 Sept 1917 St Patricks, Belfast, Antrim

William Cotterill (Bachelor. Occ: Sailor, full age)
Residence: 61 Corporation St
Father: William Cotterill (Occ: Driller)

Mary Collins (Spinster. Occ: Housemaid, full age)
Residence: 61 Corporation Street
Father: Michael Collins (Occ: Sailor)

Witnesses: Michael Collins & Mary Flynn