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Hi all,

As you are all so helpful with thoughts and ideas could you help with this chap who I have spent hours upon hours trying to figure out.

John Lambert Or also Alfred J Lambert on the 1881 Census - I cannot see him referred by this name anywhere else.

What I know -
He married Sarah Seely 23rd Oct 1857 and was age 20 so DOB abt 1837. Occupation Laborer and father John Lambert also Laborer.

I can find them on the 1881 census at Picton street Bradford, 1871 125 Bedford Street Bradford, 1861 Green Lane (I think) Finningham, All show birth place as Finningham or Walsham in suffolk.

Pre marriage possibility -

Possible christening - Walsham Le Willows Suffolk 06/12/1840 father John and mother Sophia

Possible on 1851 census in Finningham, Age 15 abt. 1836 agl labourer, born Walsham. Father John, mother Sophia.

Possible 1841 Census in Finningham, Age 4 so DOB abt 1837. With mother but no father. Above them on the census is a lady called Mahalath Baker. Now Sarah Seely has a sister called Mahalath. It is an unusal name so I wonder if this Mahalath could be a relation to Sarah???

Also on the 1871 in Bradford there is a family with the surname Pizzey listed above and then in 1851 census in Finningham above Sarahs parents there is also a family with the surname Pizzy. Also an unusual name so I also wonder if this could be a relation or I guess a friend.

Now I believe Sarah dies in 1886 and then I struggle to find any trace of John Lambert. There are a couple of possibilities in the census with similar birth dates and birth place Finningham but a long way from Bradford or Finningham. He is not listed as deceased on Alfred (child) marriage in 1912. I have tried looking at marriages and deaths but with no luck.

Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

For INFO

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Bedford Street, Bradford, Yorkshire & Yorkshire (West Riding), England

John Lambert Lodger - Male 34 1837 - Suffolk, England Transcription
Sarah Lambert Wife - Female 33 1838 - Suffolk, England Transcription
John Lambert Son - Male 11 1860 - Suffolk, England Transcription
Flora Lambert Daughter - Female 9 1862 - Suffolk, England Transcription
Charles Lambert Son - Male 5 1866 - Suffolk, England Transcription
Eva Lambert Daughter - Female 0 1871 - Suffolk, England Transcription

All are stated to have been born in Finningham

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Green, Finningham, Hartismere, Suffolk, England

John Lambert Head Married Male 24 1837 Agr Labourer Suffolk, England Transcription
Sarah Lambert Wife Married Female 23 1838 - Finningham, Suffolk, England Transcription
Alfred S Lambert Son - Male 0 1861 - Bradford, Yorkshire, England

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Finningham, Hartismere, Suffolk, England


John Lambert Head Married Male 35 1816 Agl Labourer Suffolk, England Transcription
Sophia Lambert Wife Married Female 31 1820 Agl Labourer Wife Suffolk, England Transcription
John Lambert Son Unmarried Male 15 1836 Agl Labourer Suffolk, England Transcription
William Lambert Son - Male 12 1839 Agl Labourer Aspall, Suffolk, England Transcription
Jacob Lambert Son - Male 10 1841 Agl Labourer Finningham, Suffolk, England Transcription
George Lambert Son - Male 8 1843 - Finningham, Suffolk, England Transcription
Eliza Lambert Daughter - Female 6 1845 Scholar Finningham, Suffolk, England Transcription
Nathaniel Lambert Son - Male 4 1847 - Finningham, Suffolk, England Transcription
Elijah Lambert Son - Male 3 1848 - Finningham, Suffolk, England Transcription
Briant Lambert Son - Male 1 1850 - Finningham, Suffolk, England


1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Finningham, Hartismere, Suffolk, England


Sophia Lambert Female 25 1816 - Transcription
John Lambert Male 4 1837 Suffolk, England Transcription
William Lambert Male 2 1839 Suffolk, England Transcription
Jacob Lambert Male 0 1841 - Transcription


It would certainly appear that all the above are for the same person

Name John Lambert
Spouse's Name Sophia Allum
Event Date 1836
Event Place Walsham Le Willows, Bts, Suffolk, England

One of his brothers

LAMBERT, JACOB ALLEN
GRO Reference: 1841 J Quarter in HARTISMERE Volume 13 Page 429


Deaths Jun 1926 (>99%)
Lambert Jacob 85 Medway 2a 807

and another

LAMBERT, NATHANIEL ALLUM
GRO Reference: 1846 D Quarter in HARTISMERE Volume 13 Page 420

sister

LAMBERT, ELIZA ALLEN
GRO Reference: 1848 J Quarter in HARTISMERE Volume 13 Page 466

His mother living with one his brothers

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
26, Oakwood Avenue, Bolton, Bradford, Yorkshire & Yorkshire (West Riding),

Brian Lambert Head Married Male 30 1851 Suffolk, England Gas Stoker Transcription
Ester Lambert Wife Married Female 31 1850 Skipton, Yorkshire, England Housewife Transcription
Hannah F Lambert Daughter Single Female 11 1870 Skipton, Yorkshire, England Scholar Transcription
John E Lambert Son Single Male 9 1872 Skipton, Yorkshire, England Scholar Transcription
Brian Lambert Son Single Male 3 1878 Bradford, Yorkshire, England - Transcription
Ada Lambert Daughter Single Female 0 1881 Bradford, Yorkshire, England - Transcription
Sophia Lambert Mother Widow Female 67 1814 Suffolk, England

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Birr Street, Shipley, Bradford, Yorkshire & Yorkshire (West Riding), England

Sophie Lambert Head Widow Female 68 1823 Suffolk, England

-

You mentioned Mahalath Baker.

This is the 1841 you mention, for our reference;

Mahalash Baker
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Mahalash Baker
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Gender: Female
Civil Parish: Finningham
Hundred: Hartismere
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Registration district: Hartismere
Sub-registration district: Mendlesham
Neighbors:
Piece: 1023
Book: 9
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Baker 25
Mahalash Baker 20

The above is Ancestry's transcription. FS's version gives her name as Mahalath.

However, Sarah's sister is with her parents and siblings in 1841:

Mahalash Seely
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Mahalash Seely
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823
Gender: Female
Where born: Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: Finningham
Hundred: Hartismere
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Registration district: Hartismere
Sub-registration district: Mendlesham
Neighbors:
Piece: 1023
Book: 9
Folio: 9
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Seely 40
Sophia Seely 40
Elizah Seely 20
Mahalash Seely 18
Henry Seely 16
Robert Seely 14
Alfred Seely 11
Hannah Seely 8
Sarah Seely 3

Re the Pizzey family -

the Pizzy's above Sarah's parents in 1851:

William Guzzy
in the 1851 England Census
Name: William Guzzy
[William Pizzy]
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Son
Father's name: Isaac Guzzy
Mother's name: Lydia Guzzy
Gender: Male
Where born: Finningham, Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: Finningham
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Registration district: Hartismere
Sub-registration district: Mendlesham
ED, institution, or vessel: 7b
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 8
Piece: 1795
Folio: 132
Page Number: 2
Household Members:
Name Age
Isaac Guzzy 50
Lydia Guzzy 51
John Guzzy 21
William Guzzy 17
Isaac Guzzy 12 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


and in Bradford 1871:

Isaac Pizzey
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Isaac Pizzey
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Annie Pizzey
Gender: Male
Where born: Finningham, Suffolk, England <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Civil Parish: Bradford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
Town: Bradford
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Bradford
Sub-registration district: Bradford East End
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 161
Piece: 4450
Folio: 36
Page Number: 25
Household Members:
Name Age
Isaac Pizzey 31 <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Annie Pizzey 31
Elizabeth Pizzey 3
Eliza Pizzey 2
Isaiah Sutcliffe 35


??

Ann Mason
in the West Yorkshire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935
Name: Ann Mason
Marriage Age: 26
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1840
Marriage Date: 21 May 1866
Marriage Place: Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral), Yorkshire, England
Father: William Mason
Spouse: Isaac Pizzey


The Pizzey's are probably just friends of John & Sarah's families.

EDIT:
Isaac junior's mother's ms was Brighton - shown in his brother John's baptism record - so no link there either:

England Births and Christenings
Name John Pizzy
Residence Place Finningham, Suffolk, England
Gender Male
Christening Date 1830
Christening Date (Original) 11 APR 1830
Christening Place FINNINGHAM, BTS, SUFFOLK, ENGLAND
Birth Date 1829
Father's Name Isaac Pizzy
Mother's Name Lydia Brighton

Daughter Eva Eliza born 1871 marries 1895 in Bradford to Harry Ernest Gosling it states her dad John Lambert a auctioneer!!

1891 Manningham Bradford
George Goode
Florence Sarah Goode 1863 nee Lambert sister to Alfred John Lambert 1837
Eva Eliza Lambert
Beatrice Selina lambert
Ethelburt Lambert born Barnsley ( it says female but it 1901 he is with wife Ada at Harry and Eva Gosling's home) in 1910 he is in USA.
Rose Ellen lambert
Annie Susanna Lambert


A tree on ancestry suggest Alfred John lambert 1837 died Kent 1926 I don't know how right this is!!

Maryb.

The 1926 death on the Ancestry tree is NOT correct - I took the precaution of looking at freebmd

His brother Jacob died in Kent in 1926 - as I posted earlier

1911 2,Sandy land Wisbech Cambridge
John lambert born 1837 in Finningham Suffolk a Greengrocer married 10 year 7 children
Emily wife born 1857 in kings lynn Norfolk married 10 years looks like no children.

John and Sarah had 7 children!!

Annie Susanna Lambert age 28 married 13/4/1912 in Bradford to Arthur Field, her dad is down as John William lambert a fruiterer (could this be Greengrocer as on 1911 census??).

John William lambert married A/M/J 1901 in kings lynn to Susan Emily Sainty she was born 1856 and in 1901 was a widow.
So it does look like the same John lambert 1837

Susan Emily Green married 1890 to George Sainty

Death for same man ?? John W H (N on original)Lambert born 1836 died June 1917 Wisbech Norfolk V3b P630

?? 1901 Maids? Head kings lynn Norfolk
John W lambert born Walham Le Willows Suffolk a widow age 60 a travelling draper

Maryb.

Thanks for the info so far -
This John Lambert the Greengrocer was also the only possibility I could see. Your logic definatly makes sense and sounds very very plausible. Possibly a big stretch but John Lamberts daughter Florence married George Goode whose mother was Maria Goode (no father) She married Edward (on the 1871 census) Edwin (on the marriage cert) in 1866 and the witness was a Robert Green. Green is a common name so long shot but could be a relation of Susan Green. Anyway I digress as I have been staring at Edward/Edwin Chinery all day without a trace and the marriage cert copy is rubbish so its almost impossible to decide what the fathers name is which is not helping so I know this marriage cert off by heart now.. :-S

Death of Edward/Edwin ???:

Deaths Mar 1876 (>99%)
CHINERY Edwin 63 Stow.S. 4a 381

In 1871 his YOB is 1804 per Ancestry, or 1810 per FS.

In 1881 all the Chinery children are living together with no parents - so both died 1871-81 ?

??
Deaths Jun 1879 (>99%)
Chinery Maria 41 Stow, S. 4a 370



Edward Chimery
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Edward Chimery
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: 1811
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ryan Poole [NOT his spouse, per image]
Gender: Male
Where born: Wetherden, Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: Woolpit
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Registration district: Stow
Sub-registration district: Rattlesden
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 19
Piece: 1145
Folio: 178
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Chimery 50 - unmarried
Ryan Poole 51 - unmarried, housekeeper [Maria in 1851 below]




Edward Chenery
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Edward Chenery
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolpit, Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: Woolpit
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Street address: Crown Inn, Street
Occupation: Bootmaker journeyman
Registration district: Stow
Sub-registration district: Walsham
ED, institution, or vessel: 6a
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 108
Piece: 1794
Folio: 321
Page Number: 25
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Green 55 - boot & shoe maker, & innkeeper
Charlotte Green 51
Emma Green 17
Charoline Green 13
Edward Chenery 36 - bootmaker journeyman, unmarried
Robert Howe 20 - "hosler" [ ostler ?? hosier ??], lodger
William Clark 20 - drover, lodger
Maria Poole 39 - widow ["Ryan" in 1861], lodger
Robert Gallant 15 - apprentice
John Wright 26 - lodger

I would guess this is the Robert Green who was witness to Edward/Edwin's marriage:


Robert Green
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Robert Green
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: 1820
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann Green
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolpit, Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: Woolpit
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Street address: - The Alley, Woolpit.
Registration district: Stow
Sub-registration district: Rattlesden
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 29
Piece: 1145
Folio: 179
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Green 41 - bootmaker
Ann Green 39
Ellen Green 15
William R Green 6
Caroline Green 7



Robert Green
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Robert Green
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann Green
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolpit, Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: Woolpit
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Registration district: Stow
Sub-registration district: Rattlesden
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Household schedule number: 33
Piece: 1732
Folio: 168
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Green 50 - shoemaker, out of employ
Ann Green 42
Harriett Rice 75 - mother-in-law

Hi all,

Just received Sarah Lambert (John's first wife Death cert or what I thought would be her death cert and it is defiantly not this Sarah Lambert. Any ideas to narrow down the field now in terms of her death? I like I think you guys assumed she was dead by 1891 as the children are living elsewhere by then.

Also her birth is registered by Elijah named as brother and not either of the parents. Is this weird or normal practise at the time?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Sue

1891:-

Name: John Lambert
Gender: Male
Age: 54
Relationship: Visitor
Birth Year: 1837
Birth Place: Fringham, Suffolk, England
Residence Place: Newark, Newark, Nottinghamshire, England
Sub registration district: Newark
ED, Institution or Vessel: 6
Piece: 2713 Folio: 109
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Bousfield 29
Emily Marriott 25
Alice Cutts 20
Florence Bousfield 1
Bessie Tomlinson 39
Hannah Tomlinson 10
Tottie Tomlinson 7
Ellen M Tomlinson 3/12
Jane Spears 42
John Lambert 54 married visitor Living on own means Suffolk Finningham
Sarah Lambert 53 married visitor Suffolk Finningham

You mention Sarah as John's 'first wife'- who was his second wife?

When Annie Susannah Lambert marries in 1912, she lists her father as John WIlliam Lambert, fruiterer- which could fit with the green grocer John Lambert listed in 1911 in Cambridgeshire with wife Emily.
------------------------------

Have you looked into the marriages of all the children?

When Beatrice Selina Lambert marries in 1895 she lists her father as Auctioneer (as does Eva).

Have you found John in 1901?

Hi
Me and I think the people I was chatting with on this thread assumed the Sarah Lambert that died in 1886 was this Sarah Lambert but now I know this not to be the case it is back to the drawing board. I think the info you posted regarding 1891 looks like its very promising so will have a closer look at that. After that I hadn't been able to find anything regarding John or now Sarah.

I had see the 1911 census regarding the green grocer and the Fruiterer and had concluded the same that this must be John Lambert and so possibly a second wife which is now on my list of things to investigate.

I have been trying to be a bit more concise with my research as at the start I ended up with just millions of names and I was getting really confused so I have tried to follow the direct lines so far until I get stuck and then this message board has been super helpful at showing me new lines of research and also new websites to look at.

So I have looked briefly looked at the children at the start of my research but I cannot remember if it was when I had access to the parish records on ancestry or before that so I think it is defiantly a good idea to revisit this line of inquiry.

No so far I have been unable to locate John in 1901 or either John or Sarah' deaths.

The direct line I have been tracing eventually linked to myself is Thomas Seeley Goode (who married Alice Scott) His parents were George William Goode and Florence Lambert which leads me to John Lambert and Sarah Seely.

Another marriage for Susan Emily ??

Marriages Sep 1937 (>99%)
Clarke John Lambert Wisbech 3b 1884
Lambert Susan E Clarke Wisbech 3b 1884


And her death:

Deaths Mar 1939 (>99%)
Clarke Susan E 83 Wisbech 3b 762