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Ernest W(alter) Hards - how many?

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KeithG

KeithG Report 19 Jul 2018 16:10

I have found three marriages for Ernest W(alter) Hards:
Marguerite McGahan 1918
May Upsher 1941
Janet E S Lunn 1961
But while the first marriage is clearly Ernest Walter, backed up by an image of the parish record, the other two are Ernest W.
Studying the Electoral Rolls shows there are at least two (or he's a bigamist maintaining two households!). For example: in 1945 he's in Croydon with May, but he's also in Epsom with Ellen, Gladys, & John; in 1936 he's with Marguerite in Fulham but also in Acton with Mary. I've yet to find a marriage with either Gladys or Ellen.
He's alone and "divorced" in the 1939 register.
Please does anyone have any bright ideas how to sort out which EWH is which, short of ordering the certificates?
Thanks
Keith

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 19 Jul 2018 16:50

Did he have a son also named Ernest who may be one of the later marriages

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 19 Jul 2018 16:53

With marguerite

View London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Add Alternative Information
Report issue
Name: Ernest Walter Hards
Year: 1934
County or Borough: Hammersmith and Fulham
Ward or Division/Constituency: Fulham East and West
Street address: 17 Bramber Road

He is still at that address on his own in 1939

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 19 Jul 2018 16:57

Would say that is the second marriage


Name: Ernest W Hards
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1941
Registration district: Croydon
Inferred County: Surrey
Spouse: May Upsher
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 2301


He died in the Croydon area


Name: Ernest Walter Hards
Death Age: 89
Birth Date: 16 Jul 1896
Registration Date: Aug 1985
Registration district: Croydon
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 11
Page: 1361

Birth date ties with the 1939 register

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 19 Jul 2018 17:03

I think the one with May in Croydon could be William Ernest (using his name the other way round) and this could be his birth:-

First name(s) William Ernest
Last name Hards
Birth year 1908
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name -
District Croydon
County Surrey
Country England
Volume 2A
Page 392
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006

and marriage:-

First name(s) ERNEST W
Last name HARDS
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1941
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ ERNEST W HARDS married
May Upsher
Spouse's last name Upsher
District Croydon
District number -
County Surrey
Country England
Volume 2A
Volume as transcribed 2A
Page number 2301

Kath. x

KeithG

KeithG Report 19 Jul 2018 17:11

I'm not aware of any children yet.

Interesting thought about William Ernest, no sure I can see a way to be sure one way of the other ...

I agree about the 1941 marriage.

Thanks for the thoughts so far!

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 19 Jul 2018 17:14

Janet E. S. Lunn was born in 1932. I know it's possible for Ernest Walter born 1896 to have married her but I somehow doubt it.

Kath. x

malyon

malyon Report 19 Jul 2018 17:18

the first marriage is a ernest e hands

Marriages Jun 1918
Hards Ernest E McGahan Fulham 1a 632
McGahan Marguerite Hards Fulham 1a 632

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 19 Jul 2018 17:22

He was in Canada in ww1
Ernest Walter Hards
in the Canada, WWI CEF Personnel Files, 1914-1918
View Canada, WWI CEF Personnel Files, 1914-1918

Joined 30/12/1914

Name: Ernest Walter Hards
Birth Date: 16 Jul 1895
Birth Place: London, England
Father: Cehas Geo Hards
Regimental Number: 65414


And still there in 1920

Ernest Hards
in the 1921 Census of Canada
View 1921 Census of Canada
Add Alternative Information
Report issue
Name: Ernest Hards
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 25
Birth Year: abt 1896
Birth Place: England
Relation to Head of House: Chef (Head)
Father Birth Place: England
Mother Birth Place: England
Year of Immigration: 1914
Racial or Tribal Origin: English
Province or Territory: Quebec
District: Sherbrooke
District Number: 205
Sub-District: Lennoxville (Town)
Sub-District Number: 19
City, Town or Village: Lennoxville
Street or Township: Harkell Hill
Municipality: Lennoxville
Occupation: Electricien
Income: 1700
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Ernest Hards 25
Marguerite Hards 24
Alexander Hards 1 born England

Reference Number: RG 31; Folder Number: 144; Census Place: Lennoxville (Town), Sherbrooke, Quebec; Page Number: 2
Source Information
Ancestry.com. 1921 Census of Canada [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 19 Jul 2018 17:26

Son

Alexander H Hards
Registration Date: 1920
Registration district: Fulham
Inferred County: Greater London
Re-registration Year: 1920
Mother's Maiden Name: McGahan
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 663


Mmn misspelt


View Canada, Ocean Arrivals (Form 30A), 1919-1924

Name: Alexander Hugh Hards
Gender: Male
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1920
Birth Place: London, England
Age: 1
Date of Arrival: 1921
Port of Arrival: Quebec
Ship Name: Minnedosa


Sadly died young

Alexander H Hards
Death Age: 4
Birth Date: abt 1920
Registration Date: Sep 1924
Registration district: Fulham
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a
Page: 269

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 19 Jul 2018 17:32

Travelling to Quebec in 1921 (travelling with Marguerite and Alice aged 1):-

Province Quebec
First name(s) Ernest
Last name Hards
Gender Male
Age 26
Birth year 1895
Occupation LABOURER
Departure year 1921
Departure day 20
Departure month 5
Departure port Liverpool
Destination port Quebec
Destination QUEBEC
Country Canada
Destination country Canada
Ship name Minnedosa
Ship official number 142717
Ship master's first name G S
Ship master's last name WEBSTER
Ship master's title CAPT
Shipping line CANADIAN PACIFIC
City LIVERPOOL
Ship destination port MONTREAL
Ship destination country CANADA
Ship registered tonnage 8521
Number of passengers 1488
Record set Passenger Lists Leaving Uk 1890-1960
Category Travel & migration
Subcategory Passenger lists
Collections from Great Britain, England, Canada, Americas
Transcriptions © brightsolid online publishing ltd

Last address in England given as c/o Capt. Pickup, London.

EDIT - I wonder if Alexander has been put on the passenger list as Alice by mistake .

Kath. x

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 19 Jul 2018 17:35

Looks like the first marriage did end in divorce:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8077813

Divorce Court File: 4548. Appellant: Marguerite Hards. Respondent: Ernest Walter Hards....

This record has not been digitised and cannot be downloaded.

You can order records in advance to be ready for you when you visit Kew. You will need a reader's ticket to do this. Or, you can request a quotation for a copy to be sent to you.


Reference: J 77/3426/4548
Description:

Divorce Court File: 4548. Appellant: Marguerite Hards. Respondent: Ernest Walter Hards. Type: Wife's petition for divorce [wd].
Date: 1935
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Language: English
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 19 Jul 2018 17:37

May on the 1939 register

View 1939 England and Wales Register
Add Alternative Information
Report issue
Name: May Upoher
[May Hards]
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Birth Date: 29 May 1899
Residence Year: 1939
Residence Place: Lambeth, London, England
Occupation: Boot & Shoe Shop Manageress
Schedule Number: 122
Sub Schedule Number: 3
Enumeration District: ANOS
Registration district: 22/4
Inferred Father: Herbert J Upoher
Inferred Mother: Amy Upoher
Household Members:
Name
Herbert J Upshter born 1872 occ barman
Amy Upsher born 1874
May Upsher occ

Her death

England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 No Image
Text-only collection

Name: May Hards
Death Age: 84
Birth Date: 29 May 1899
Registration Date: Feb 1984
Registration district: Croydon
Inferred County: London, Surrey
Volume: 11
Page: 1695


So she died 1984 and he died 1985 so they were still together

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 19 Jul 2018 17:43

Looks like they travelled backwards and forwards from Canada as there is also this birth in England:-

First name(s) Irene P
Last name Hards
Birth year 1922
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name McGahon
District Fulham
County London
Country England
Volume 1A
Page 479
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006

Kath. x

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 19 Jul 2018 17:59

Remarriage

Marriages Mar 1937 (>99%)
Hards Marguerite Lofthouse Fulham 1a 724
Lofthouse John T Hards Fulham 1a 724
Lofthouse John T McGahan Fulham 1a 724
McGahan Marguerite Lofthouse

1939 register

View 1939 England and Wales Register
Add Alternative Information
Report issue
Name: Irene P Hards
[Patricia Catlin]
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Birth Date: 2 May 1922
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 22 Danehurst St
Residence Place: Fulham, London, England
Occupation: Telephonist
Schedule Number: 115
Sub Schedule Number: 3
Enumeration District: AGNI
Registration district: 4-2
Household Members:
Name
John T Lofthouse occ motorman district railway
Margaret Lofthouse
Irene P Hards


Marriages Jun 1941
Catlin Sidney Hards Fulham 1a 693
Hards Irene P Catlin Fulham 1a 693

Births Dec 1942
Catlin Roger Hards Kensington 1a 138

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 19 Jul 2018 18:31

May's baptism with same parents as in the 1939 register already posted:

Abode 81 Arthur Road Brixton. father a licensed vicutualler's assistant. Baptised same day as a sister, Violet Maud.

Name: May Upsher
Gender: Female
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 20 Sep 1899
Baptism Place: Kennington St John the Divine, Lambeth, England
Father: Herbert George Upsher
Mother: Amy Upsher

KeithG

KeithG Report 19 Jul 2018 18:49

Thank you for those Canadian records, I saw they were there but only have a UK subscription to Ancestry.

"the first marriage is a ernest e hands"

This is the parish record:

Name: Ernest Walter Hards
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1895
Marriage Date: 28 May 1918
Marriage Place: St Andrew, West Kensington, Hammersmith and Fulham, England
Father: Charles George Hards
Spouse: Marguerite McGhan
Register Type: Parish Register

witnesses: Charles Sullivan, Annie McGahan

"Janet E. S. Lunn was born in 1932. I know it's possible for Ernest Walter born 1896 to have married her but I somehow doubt it."

Yes, that's my concern, but how to demonstrate that it's a different EWH? Full certificate is the only way I can think of.

And another thank you for finding the birth records of Alexander Hugh Hards & Irene Patricia Hards.

"So she died 1984 and he died 1985 so they were still together"

I don't follow the logic of that, I'm afraid.

So, my puzzle remains: who did Janet Lunn marry?

Keith

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 19 Jul 2018 18:59

Well both deaths were reg in Croydon reg district indicating they were in the same area so most likely still together

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 19 Jul 2018 19:03

View England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995
Name: John Thomas Lofthouse
Death Date: 2 Jun 1985
Death Place: Fulham London
Probate Date: 7 Feb 1986
Registry: Brighton
Still living at same address as the 1939 register
22 Danehurst street

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 19 Jul 2018 22:18

Did Janet E S Lunn remarry and was her first husband actually William Ernest/Ernest William Hards?

Note Janet's next marriage was in Liskeard

Name: Donald F G James
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1978
Registration district: Liskeard
Inferred County: Cornwall
Spouse: Janet E S Hards<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Volume Number: 21

This chap born 1907 died in Liskeard the previous year:

Deaths Mar 1977
HARDS WILLIAM ERNEST 25DE1907 LISKEARD 21 316<<<<<<<<<<
Page Number: 0187

The probate indexes him under both Ernest William and William Ernest

Name: Ernest William Hards
[William Ernest Hards]
Probate Date: 1977

Hards William Ernest otherwise Ernest William of Penny's Corner Trevois Upton Cross nr Liskeard Cornwall died 6th feb 1977. Administration Brighton 25 May £21792

Birth:

Births Mar 1908
Hards William Ernest Croydon 2a 392

So Kath's hunch about William Ernest/Ernest William Hards was right, she just thought he was the one who married May Upsher, when it looks like he was the one who married Janet E S Lunn.