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KeithG
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19 Jul 2018 16:10 |
I have found three marriages for Ernest W(alter) Hards: Marguerite McGahan 1918 May Upsher 1941 Janet E S Lunn 1961 But while the first marriage is clearly Ernest Walter, backed up by an image of the parish record, the other two are Ernest W. Studying the Electoral Rolls shows there are at least two (or he's a bigamist maintaining two households!). For example: in 1945 he's in Croydon with May, but he's also in Epsom with Ellen, Gladys, & John; in 1936 he's with Marguerite in Fulham but also in Acton with Mary. I've yet to find a marriage with either Gladys or Ellen. He's alone and "divorced" in the 1939 register. Please does anyone have any bright ideas how to sort out which EWH is which, short of ordering the certificates? Thanks Keith
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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19 Jul 2018 16:50 |
Did he have a son also named Ernest who may be one of the later marriages
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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19 Jul 2018 16:53 |
With marguerite
View London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965 Add Alternative Information Report issue Name: Ernest Walter Hards Year: 1934 County or Borough: Hammersmith and Fulham Ward or Division/Constituency: Fulham East and West Street address: 17 Bramber Road
He is still at that address on his own in 1939
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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19 Jul 2018 16:57 |
Would say that is the second marriage
Name: Ernest W Hards Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1941 Registration district: Croydon Inferred County: Surrey Spouse: May Upsher Volume Number: 2a Page Number: 2301
He died in the Croydon area
Name: Ernest Walter Hards Death Age: 89 Birth Date: 16 Jul 1896 Registration Date: Aug 1985 Registration district: Croydon Inferred County: Greater London Volume: 11 Page: 1361
Birth date ties with the 1939 register
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KathleenBell
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19 Jul 2018 17:03 |
I think the one with May in Croydon could be William Ernest (using his name the other way round) and this could be his birth:-
First name(s) William Ernest Last name Hards Birth year 1908 Birth quarter 1 Registration month - Mother's maiden name - District Croydon County Surrey Country England Volume 2A Page 392 Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
and marriage:-
First name(s) ERNEST W Last name HARDS Marriage quarter 3 Marriage year 1941 Registration month - MarriageFinder™ ERNEST W HARDS married May Upsher Spouse's last name Upsher District Croydon District number - County Surrey Country England Volume 2A Volume as transcribed 2A Page number 2301
Kath. x
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KeithG
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19 Jul 2018 17:11 |
I'm not aware of any children yet.
Interesting thought about William Ernest, no sure I can see a way to be sure one way of the other ...
I agree about the 1941 marriage.
Thanks for the thoughts so far!
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KathleenBell
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19 Jul 2018 17:14 |
Janet E. S. Lunn was born in 1932. I know it's possible for Ernest Walter born 1896 to have married her but I somehow doubt it.
Kath. x
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malyon
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19 Jul 2018 17:18 |
the first marriage is a ernest e hands
Marriages Jun 1918 Hards Ernest E McGahan Fulham 1a 632 McGahan Marguerite Hards Fulham 1a 632
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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19 Jul 2018 17:22 |
He was in Canada in ww1 Ernest Walter Hards in the Canada, WWI CEF Personnel Files, 1914-1918 View Canada, WWI CEF Personnel Files, 1914-1918
Joined 30/12/1914
Name: Ernest Walter Hards Birth Date: 16 Jul 1895 Birth Place: London, England Father: Cehas Geo Hards Regimental Number: 65414
And still there in 1920
Ernest Hards in the 1921 Census of Canada View 1921 Census of Canada Add Alternative Information Report issue Name: Ernest Hards Gender: Male Marital Status: Married Age: 25 Birth Year: abt 1896 Birth Place: England Relation to Head of House: Chef (Head) Father Birth Place: England Mother Birth Place: England Year of Immigration: 1914 Racial or Tribal Origin: English Province or Territory: Quebec District: Sherbrooke District Number: 205 Sub-District: Lennoxville (Town) Sub-District Number: 19 City, Town or Village: Lennoxville Street or Township: Harkell Hill Municipality: Lennoxville Occupation: Electricien Income: 1700 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Ernest Hards 25 Marguerite Hards 24 Alexander Hards 1 born England
Reference Number: RG 31; Folder Number: 144; Census Place: Lennoxville (Town), Sherbrooke, Quebec; Page Number: 2 Source Information Ancestry.com. 1921 Census of Canada [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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19 Jul 2018 17:26 |
Son
Alexander H Hards Registration Date: 1920 Registration district: Fulham Inferred County: Greater London Re-registration Year: 1920 Mother's Maiden Name: McGahan Volume Number: 1a Page Number: 663
Mmn misspelt
View Canada, Ocean Arrivals (Form 30A), 1919-1924
Name: Alexander Hugh Hards Gender: Male Estimated Birth Year: abt 1920 Birth Place: London, England Age: 1 Date of Arrival: 1921 Port of Arrival: Quebec Ship Name: Minnedosa
Sadly died young
Alexander H Hards Death Age: 4 Birth Date: abt 1920 Registration Date: Sep 1924 Registration district: Fulham Inferred County: London Volume: 1a Page: 269
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KathleenBell
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19 Jul 2018 17:32 |
Travelling to Quebec in 1921 (travelling with Marguerite and Alice aged 1):-
Province Quebec First name(s) Ernest Last name Hards Gender Male Age 26 Birth year 1895 Occupation LABOURER Departure year 1921 Departure day 20 Departure month 5 Departure port Liverpool Destination port Quebec Destination QUEBEC Country Canada Destination country Canada Ship name Minnedosa Ship official number 142717 Ship master's first name G S Ship master's last name WEBSTER Ship master's title CAPT Shipping line CANADIAN PACIFIC City LIVERPOOL Ship destination port MONTREAL Ship destination country CANADA Ship registered tonnage 8521 Number of passengers 1488 Record set Passenger Lists Leaving Uk 1890-1960 Category Travel & migration Subcategory Passenger lists Collections from Great Britain, England, Canada, Americas Transcriptions © brightsolid online publishing ltd
Last address in England given as c/o Capt. Pickup, London.
EDIT - I wonder if Alexander has been put on the passenger list as Alice by mistake .
Kath. x
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Kucinta
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19 Jul 2018 17:35 |
Looks like the first marriage did end in divorce:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8077813
Divorce Court File: 4548. Appellant: Marguerite Hards. Respondent: Ernest Walter Hards....
This record has not been digitised and cannot be downloaded.
You can order records in advance to be ready for you when you visit Kew. You will need a reader's ticket to do this. Or, you can request a quotation for a copy to be sent to you.
Reference: J 77/3426/4548 Description:
Divorce Court File: 4548. Appellant: Marguerite Hards. Respondent: Ernest Walter Hards. Type: Wife's petition for divorce [wd]. Date: 1935 Held by: The National Archives, Kew Legal status: Public Record(s) Language: English Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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19 Jul 2018 17:37 |
May on the 1939 register
View 1939 England and Wales Register Add Alternative Information Report issue Name: May Upoher [May Hards] Gender: Female Marital Status: Single Birth Date: 29 May 1899 Residence Year: 1939 Residence Place: Lambeth, London, England Occupation: Boot & Shoe Shop Manageress Schedule Number: 122 Sub Schedule Number: 3 Enumeration District: ANOS Registration district: 22/4 Inferred Father: Herbert J Upoher Inferred Mother: Amy Upoher Household Members: Name Herbert J Upshter born 1872 occ barman Amy Upsher born 1874 May Upsher occ
Her death
England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 No Image Text-only collection
Name: May Hards Death Age: 84 Birth Date: 29 May 1899 Registration Date: Feb 1984 Registration district: Croydon Inferred County: London, Surrey Volume: 11 Page: 1695
So she died 1984 and he died 1985 so they were still together
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KathleenBell
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19 Jul 2018 17:43 |
Looks like they travelled backwards and forwards from Canada as there is also this birth in England:-
First name(s) Irene P Last name Hards Birth year 1922 Birth quarter 2 Registration month - Mother's maiden name McGahon District Fulham County London Country England Volume 1A Page 479 Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Kath. x
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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19 Jul 2018 17:59 |
Remarriage
Marriages Mar 1937 (>99%) Hards Marguerite Lofthouse Fulham 1a 724 Lofthouse John T Hards Fulham 1a 724 Lofthouse John T McGahan Fulham 1a 724 McGahan Marguerite Lofthouse
1939 register
View 1939 England and Wales Register Add Alternative Information Report issue Name: Irene P Hards [Patricia Catlin] Gender: Female Marital Status: Single Birth Date: 2 May 1922 Residence Year: 1939 Address: 22 Danehurst St Residence Place: Fulham, London, England Occupation: Telephonist Schedule Number: 115 Sub Schedule Number: 3 Enumeration District: AGNI Registration district: 4-2 Household Members: Name John T Lofthouse occ motorman district railway Margaret Lofthouse Irene P Hards
Marriages Jun 1941 Catlin Sidney Hards Fulham 1a 693 Hards Irene P Catlin Fulham 1a 693
Births Dec 1942 Catlin Roger Hards Kensington 1a 138
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Kucinta
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19 Jul 2018 18:31 |
May's baptism with same parents as in the 1939 register already posted:
Abode 81 Arthur Road Brixton. father a licensed vicutualler's assistant. Baptised same day as a sister, Violet Maud.
Name: May Upsher Gender: Female Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 20 Sep 1899 Baptism Place: Kennington St John the Divine, Lambeth, England Father: Herbert George Upsher Mother: Amy Upsher
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KeithG
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19 Jul 2018 18:49 |
Thank you for those Canadian records, I saw they were there but only have a UK subscription to Ancestry.
"the first marriage is a ernest e hands"
This is the parish record:
Name: Ernest Walter Hards Gender: Male Marriage Age: 23 Record Type: Marriage Birth Date: abt 1895 Marriage Date: 28 May 1918 Marriage Place: St Andrew, West Kensington, Hammersmith and Fulham, England Father: Charles George Hards Spouse: Marguerite McGhan Register Type: Parish Register
witnesses: Charles Sullivan, Annie McGahan
"Janet E. S. Lunn was born in 1932. I know it's possible for Ernest Walter born 1896 to have married her but I somehow doubt it."
Yes, that's my concern, but how to demonstrate that it's a different EWH? Full certificate is the only way I can think of.
And another thank you for finding the birth records of Alexander Hugh Hards & Irene Patricia Hards.
"So she died 1984 and he died 1985 so they were still together"
I don't follow the logic of that, I'm afraid.
So, my puzzle remains: who did Janet Lunn marry?
Keith
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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19 Jul 2018 18:59 |
Well both deaths were reg in Croydon reg district indicating they were in the same area so most likely still together
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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19 Jul 2018 19:03 |
View England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995 Name: John Thomas Lofthouse Death Date: 2 Jun 1985 Death Place: Fulham London Probate Date: 7 Feb 1986 Registry: Brighton Still living at same address as the 1939 register 22 Danehurst street
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Kucinta
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19 Jul 2018 22:18 |
Did Janet E S Lunn remarry and was her first husband actually William Ernest/Ernest William Hards?
Note Janet's next marriage was in Liskeard
Name: Donald F G James Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1978 Registration district: Liskeard Inferred County: Cornwall Spouse: Janet E S Hards<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Volume Number: 21
This chap born 1907 died in Liskeard the previous year:
Deaths Mar 1977 HARDS WILLIAM ERNEST 25DE1907 LISKEARD 21 316<<<<<<<<<< Page Number: 0187
The probate indexes him under both Ernest William and William Ernest
Name: Ernest William Hards [William Ernest Hards] Probate Date: 1977
Hards William Ernest otherwise Ernest William of Penny's Corner Trevois Upton Cross nr Liskeard Cornwall died 6th feb 1977. Administration Brighton 25 May £21792
Birth:
Births Mar 1908 Hards William Ernest Croydon 2a 392
So Kath's hunch about William Ernest/Ernest William Hards was right, she just thought he was the one who married May Upsher, when it looks like he was the one who married Janet E S Lunn.
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