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Hi all

The above ancestor was consistent with his place of birth on the census 1861 - 1911, but the dob varied slightly, he worked as a railway guard. He married Hannah Tyson in 1859 in Ulverston (Lancs) registration district, their first three children were born Carlisle, then they move back to Coniston area.

I can't find him prior to his marriage to establish who his parents were - can anyone spot anything prior to 1859 please? I don't need any details post the marriage as I have him until his death in 1913, ditto his wife Hannah I have her till death in 1924.

Many thanks in advance.

For info, should have posted earlier:

Name Charles Turnbull
Event Type Census
Event Date 1891
County Lancashire
Parish Church Coniston
Ecclesiastical Parish CHURCH CONISTON
Registration District Ulverston
Residence Note Cat Bank
Gender Male
Age 56
Marital Status Married
Occupation Railway Porter
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1835
Birthplace Yorkshire, England
Page Number 9
Registration Number RG12
Piece/Folio 3481/ 66

Charles Turnbull Head M 56 Yorkshire, England
Hannah Turnbull Wife F 47 Lancashire, England
Thomas Turnbull Son M 25 Cumberland, England
William Turnbull Son M 12 Lancashire, England
Stephen Turnbull Son M 9 Lancashire, England
Mary Webb Turnbull Granddaughter F 4 Westmorland, England

It's the granddaughter who is in the direct line, but I've ordered her BC to establish which of Charles's daughters was her mother (she was registered Kendal, illegitimate) so that should be here on Tuesday.

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Halfway Houses, Botchergate, Carlisle, Cumberland, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Charles Turnbull Head Married Male 24 1837 Railway Porter Yorkshire, England
Transcription
Hannah Turnbull Wife Married Female 20 1841 - Broughton in Furness, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Elizabeth Turnbull Daughter - Female 1 1860 - Broughton in Furness, Lancashire, England

hi

do you have marriage cert

Marriages Dec 1859 (>99%)
Dodgson Ann Ulverston 8e 1011
Mason William Ulverston 8e 1011
Turnbull Charles Richard Hubbard Ulverston 8e 1011 xxxxx
Tyson Hannah Ulverston 8e 1011

Hi safc - thanks for this.

No, I haven't got the marriage certificate yet, I want to prove Mary is the child of one of their daughters first. No idea where the additional names for Charles come from, none are used in the census but I should have posted the marriage.

I've only recently started researching my ex's family for our son, and have a list of stuff to check out when I can get to the local records office as they have all the Cumbria parish records - it saves a fortune in certs!

I wonder if there is anything in the railway employment records on ancestry?

The only Charles Turnbull that I can find on the railway records on Ancestry was born 1888, lived in Huddersfield.

Thanks Margaret, it was worth checking.

Added, as I know his grandaughter is a direct line I've just ordered the marriage certificate as per the details posted by safc. Think it may be the only way of establishing his father (thats if he was actually named), but at least it should give me his mother.

Oh, just realised a MC will not name his mother - think I must be having a "senior moment".

Charles Richard Turnbull born 25/1/1834 baptised 14/2/1834 in Knareborough by Richard and Catherine.

1841 Catharine 1812 a widow with son Charles.

Maryb.

Any chance this could be him - original has North Riding Yorkshire which would fit Harrogate and it puts him in the right RD

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hartley Ground, Broughton West, Ulverston, Lancashire & Cumberland, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Matthew Carter Head Married Male 33 1818 Farmer Thwaites, Cumberland, England
Elizabeth Carter Wife Married Female 34 1817 - Lancashire, England
Sarah A Carter Daughter - Female 3 1848 - Lancashire, England
Charles Turnbull Servant Unmarried Male 17 1834 Farm Servant Yorkshire, England

Is this the 1841 you're referring to Mary - has Catherine as a widow, her and Charles born in County

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Canning Street, Holy Trinity, Kingston upon Hull, Yorkshire & Yorkshire (East Riding), England

First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
Catharine Turnbull Female 29 1812 Yorkshire, England
Mary Maguive Female 23 1818 Ireland
Patrick Maguive Male 24 1817 Ireland
Barnard Maguive Male 23 1818 Ireland
Charles Turnbull Male 8 1833 Yorkshire, England

Yes greyghost. Thank you.
I think the name is McGuire rather than Maguive

Maryb.

That looks promising for 1841/51 census, thanks both.

I think Mary may be onto something, it's the nearest so far. I wonder if his mother Catherine was Hubbard prior to her marriage to Richard?

OK, I now have granddaughters bc (pdf) dob 15/4/1887 - names her mother as Hannah Turnbull (no father named, but as they recorded her on the 1891 census as Mary "Webb" Turnbull I think it may have significance).

Hannah's birth was registered Carlisle in Q4/1863 and she is with her parents in Coniston in 1871. She is a servant in the Usher household in 1881 - which fits, her occupation on the bc states she was a cook:

Name Hannah Turnbull
Event Type Census
Event Date 1881
Event Place Church Coniston, Lancashire, England
Registration District Ulverston
Gender Female
Age 16
Marital Status (Original) Single
Occupation Serv Domestic
Relationship to Head of Household Servant
Birth Year (Estimated) 1865
Birthplace Carlisle, Cumberland, England
Page Number 2
Registration Number RG11
Piece/Folio 4284/70

George Usher Head M 44 Hawkshead, Lancashire, England (stonemason)
Jane Usher Wife F 41 Coniston, Lancashire, England
George D Usher Son M 8 Coniston, Lancashire, England
Thomas Usher Son M 5 Coniston, Lancashire, England
Richard Usher Son M 3 Coniston, Lancashire, England
Mary Jane Usher Daughter F 1 Coniston, Lancashire, England
Mary Dixon Mother In Law F 66 Hawkshead, Lancashire, England
Hannah Turnbull Servant F 16 Carlisle, Cumberland, England <<<<<
Arthur Proctor Apprentice M 19 Hawkshead, Lancashire, England
Joseph Hodgson Apprentice M 17 Hawkshead, Lancashire, England

However, can anyone find a marriage for her or her on later census please?

Added: I don't think Hannah was related to the Ushers, they appear to be George Usher and his wife Jane Dixon.

What about this marriage for Hannah?

Name: Hannah Turnbull
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Age: 25
Birth Date: 1864
Marriage Date: 20 Nov 1889
Marriage Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Charles Turnbull
Spouse: Washington Farrall
FHL Film Number: 93938
Reference ID: it 424, p65, no 130

On 1891 she was born in Carlisle so it looks right?



1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Birkett Road, West Kirby, Wirral, Cheshire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Washington Farrell Head Married Male 23 1868 Cheshire, England Builders Labourer
Transcription
Hannah Farrell Wife Married Female 25 1866 - - b. Carlisle.
Transcription
Frederick C Farrell Son - Male 0 1891 Cheshire, England -
Transcription


Dea x

I think that may be correct Dea, many thanks. I'll apply for the marriage certificate to check out her fathers details see if they match.

Her husband Washington E(dge) Farrall appears to have re-married to Catherine Irwin in 1926 on the Wirral, are there any other details which would confirm this please?

It may mean Hannah had died, but there are 2 deaths which could be hers.

Also, Washington Farrall looks to have died in 1943 but I can't locate him on the 1939 register, any luck with that please? Nor can I locate them on the 1911 census.

I'm going to leave getting the marriage cert for Hannah/Washington for the time being - mainly because GRO send it to my home address and after this weekend won't be there for a couple of weeks so will wait to see what else turns up.

1911 22,Eaton Street West Kirby, Wirrall
Washington E Farrall + Family married 22 years 4 children born and none died
9 rooms.

1943 on his probate he was still at 22,Eaton Street

Maryb.

He's on the 1939 register at 22 Eaton Rd.


Washington E Farrall
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name:
Washington E Farrall
Gender:
Male
Marital Status:
Married
Birth Date:
15 Oct 1864
Residence Year:
1939
Address:
22
Residence Place:
Hoylake, Cheshire, England
Occupation:
Property Repairer
Inferred Spouse:
Catherine Farrall
Household Members:
Washington E Farrall
Catherine Farrall