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Hi All

The death record is that of my Henry but the I don't think the one in the 1871 census is as in the 1881 census he was living in Oldham Gardens with Kate and their children.

Many thanks for looking

Sandra

Deaths Mar 1890 (>99%)
Barrett Henry Francis 47 Strand 1b 491

????

1871 Census
14 Records found

age out a bit ??


Piece: RG10/1626 Place: West Ham -Essex Enumeration District: 13
Civil Parish: West Ham Ecclesiastical Parish: West Ham
Folio: 39 Page: 8 Schedule: 37
Address: 23 Leyton Road

Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
BARRETT Henry Francis Head M M 35 Printer Surrey - -
BARRETT Eliza Wife M F 37 Surrey - -
GOSNELL Eliza Stpdau S F 19 Essex - -
GOSNELL George Stpson S M 17 Builder Essex - -
GOSNELL John Stpson - M 14 Plasterers Boy Essex - -
GOSNELL Charles Stpson - M 7 Essex - -
GOSNELL Thomas Stpson - M 4 Essex - -
BARRETT Harry Son - M 14 Plasterers Boy Essex - -
BARRETT Frederick Son - M 12 Essex - -
BARRETT Thomas Son - M 11 Essex - -
BARRETT George Son - M 8 Essex - -
BARRETT Arthur E Son - M 6 Essex - -
BARRETT Louisa Dau - F 4 Essex - -
BARRETT Lillan Dau - F 1m Essex - Stratford

cant find them in 1881
can any one

Hi Maddie

Thanks for your input, not quite sure the younger Alfred is our one though as the church gives his birth as 1882 not 1883.

He did marry Maria Dunks, so we're on the right path with that though

Thanks again for your help
Sandra

Hi Erikah

Thanks for the update. I honestly don't know what to think, maybe they just managed to slip through the net! I have found most of Henry and Catherine's children roman catholic baptism records but no GRO records and I have found Kate and Albert's childrens CofE baptism's but the GRO births are missing for my grandmother and one of her siblings but I have found one birth and 2 death records for 2 other siblings!

If I could only find the marriage record for Henry and Catherine it would clarify a lot. I would have thought as they had the children baptised giving Catherine's maiden and married name there would be a record of their marriage somewhere!

Thanks for your help
Sandra

From GRO website

However, registration did not become compulsory until 1875. Until 1875 there was no penalty for not registering a birth; after that a fine of £2 was introduced. Between 1837 and 1875 some births were not registered so a child could be sent out to work, or, after 1853, to avoid the compulsory vaccinations of children over three months old which began that year.

Hi All

The Kate Barrett who married Albert Spite is Henry Barrett's daughter, my great grandmother, and the Nowlans living with the Spite's in the 1939 Register are my grandparents, Kathleen is my late mum.

I know the civil registration is down to the parents and not the church but I read an article that stated that the roman catholic church did not interfere if the parents did not comply. My grandmother Rose, Catherine's and Albert's daughter, does not appear on GRO either but I have found her christening in a CofE church. There is a Rose Elizabeth Spite on GRO in 1908 (my grandmother was born 1905) and the one listed was my great aunt.

Again, I have read an article that stated that many parents did not actually register the births of children until the issue of rationing books when proof of birth had to be given before a ration book would be provided.

I just don't know where to look next!

Thanks for all your help

Sandra

after 1875 all births had to be registered so religion wasn't an exception

Civil registration of births is not the responsibility of the Church - it is down to the parents

And marriages in a Catholic Church required the presence of a civil registrar, so it should have been registered - IF a marriage actually occurred

Have you found Henry in 1871?

This looks like the above couple on 1939 ? - Gives Catherin'e date of birth ?

Nowlan Household (9 People) 7 Shrewsbury Road , Southgate M.B., Middlesex, England
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First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
Catherine M Spite 03 Oct 1884 Unpaid Domestic Duties
John C Nowlan 12 Apr 1906 Printers Machine Minders
Ross E Nowlan 17 Dec 1905 Unpaid Domestic Duties House Duty
Kathleen R Nowlan 20 Jun 1927 At School
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Albert E Spite 14 Dec 1882 Motor Cleaner
Albert E Spite 08 Oct 1925 At School
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.

Dea x

kate
Name: Kate Barrett
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1884
Marriage Date: 17 Nov 1903
Marriage Place: Gray's Inn Road Holy Trinity, Camden, England
Father: Henry Barrett --- printer deceases
Spouse: Albert Spite
Register Type: Parish Register

both living at 1 Gough Street

Hi All

Many thanks for your quick responses and apologies for lack of information posted as this is my first posting! The Sweeney name was given to me by an uncle with very little memory and I have found the following children in the roman catholic baptism records.
Catherine Mary Barrett born Oct 1884
Alfred Barrett born 1882
both bap 23 Oct 1884 St Anselm & St Celia RC Sardinian Chapel London
parents given as Catherine nee Sweeney and Henry Barrett.

Anna Barrett born April 1881
Bap May 1881
Parents given as Maria nee Sweeney and Henry Barrett

Helen (Sweeney) born Aug 1871
Bap Sep 1871
Parents given as Catherine Sweeney

Francis (Frank) Michael Barrett married Alice Hussan 1904 and gives Henry as his father.

I have been unable to find birth records on the GRO for the children but this could be because of the reluctance for the roman catholic church to give the information which might be why I cannot find any trace of Henry and Catherine's marriage.

In 1881 census they lived at 14 Oldham Gardens
Henry died January 1890 and at the time they lived at 35 Exeter Street
In 1891 census they lived 52 Surrey Row

Hope this gives you all something to work with

Many thanks once again for your help
Sandra

alfred born 8 8 83
with kate born 5 6 84
living in Sandhurst Street

Name: Alfred Barrett
Gender: Male
Age: 6
Birth Date: 8 Aug 1883
Admission Date: 26 Aug 1889
School: St John The Evangelist School
Admission Place: Camden, London, England

Name: Alfred Barrett
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 32
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1884
Marriage Date: 9 Aug 1916
Marriage Place: St Silas, Pentonville, Islington, England
Father: Henry Barrett ---- deceased
Spouse: Maria Dunks
Register Type: Parish Register
Father: Henry Barrett
Notes: Non-provided school school (0136)

There no Annie or Francis Barrett onnth GRO site wth mmn Sweeney

Sandra

Can you tell us which documents you have seen with Catherine's birth surname..............

I can't find birth registrations for ANY of the children, and most of them were born after the introduction of penalties in 1875

???????

Name: Katherine Sweeney
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: 1855
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Patrick Sweeney
Mother's name: Ellen Sweeney
Gender: Female
Where born: Whitechapel, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Whitechapel
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub-registration district: Whitechapel North
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 141
Piece: 269
Folio: 71
Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
Patrick Sweeney 65
Ellen Sweeney 44
John Sweeney 20
William Sweeney 4
Honora Sweeney 8
Katherine Sweeney 6
Ellen Sweeney 21

Name: Kate Barrett
Gender: Female
Age: 36
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1855
Child: Annie Barrett
Frank Barrett
Alfred Barrett
Kate Barrett
Birth Place: Marylebone, London, England
Civil Parish: Christchurch
Residence Place: Christchurch, London, England
Sub registration district: Christchurch Southwark
ED, Institution or Vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 341
Folio: 20
Household Members:
Name Age
Kate Barrett 36
Annie Barrett 13
Frank Barrett 10
Alfred Barrett 8
Kate Barrett 6

Thanks Andrew - helpful

1881 for ref

Name: Harry Barrett
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Catharine Barrett
Gender: Male
Where born: London, London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Clerkenwell
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 14 Oldham Gardens
Marital Status: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Printer
Registration district: Holborn
Sub registration district: Amwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 7b
Neighbors:
Piece: 351
Folio: 16
Page Number: 25
Household Members:
Name Age
Harry Barrett 34
Catharine Barrett 26
Nell Barrett 10
Annie Barrett 3
Francis Barrett

Andy

Can you post some census info, please

Or at least some names and dates for their children.
Thank you