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So if that Mary Ann above is mum maiden name ball then that isn't the one I found with mum nee Witton born Jan 1874,so where is she in 1881?
Also can we find another Gearing-Witton marriage.

Maryb.

I'm coming back to this thread following a message from Jenny via Ancestry - she's still looking for Ann Gearing, in the hope of finding Jessie's birth.


Starting again, and reading through the posts so far, to get it all straight in my head -

the 1871 census with Ann(e) Gearing (widow) with children Emily Jane, Ann T, Mary A, and Maria C is the correct one.

Then Jenny said Ann married James Thackerrey:

Marriages Sep 1877 (>99%)
Gearing Ann Lambeth 1d 723
Thackerrey James Lambeth 1d 723
THACKERSBY James Lambeth 1d 723

So if Jessie was born c1875, she should be on the 1881 census with her mother and stepfather.

Have you found them in 1881, Jenny?

Is this the family in 1891?? With children as Thackeray ? "Jessica" 's YOB seems right, but Mary's is a bit out:

Ann Thackeray
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Ann Thackeray
Gender: Female
Age: 50
Relationship: Wife
Birth Year: 1841
Spouse: James Thackeray
Child: Mary Thackeray
Jessica Thackeray
Birth Place: Lambeth, London, England
Civil Parish: St George the Martyr
Ecclesiastical parish: St Alphage
Residence Place: St George the Martyr, London, England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub registration district: Borough Road
ED, Institution or Vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 347
Folio: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
James Thackeray 67
Ann Thackeray 50
Mary Thackeray 20
Jessica Thackeray 17


Mary Adelaide married in 1894:

Marriages Dec 1894 (>99%)
Dickeson Thomas St. Saviour 1d 160
Gearing Mary Adelaide St. Saviour 1d 160

You said that Ann died at the Dickesons' address. Is this her death??

Deaths Mar 1905 (>99%)
Thackerey Ann 66 Camberwell 1d 532

You said Jessie married James Measures -

Jessie Gearing
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1931
Name: Jessie Gearing
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1876
Marriage Date: 26 Jan 1896
Marriage Place: St Philip, Lambeth, Lambeth, England
Father: Henry Gearing
Spouse: James Measures
Register Type: Parish Register


so this will be the family in 1901:

Annie Thackerey
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Annie Thackerey
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
[1837]
Relation to Head: Mother-in-law
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Westminster, London, England
Civil Parish: Deptford St Paul
Ecclesiastical parish: St Katharine Rotherhithe
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration district: Greenwich
Sub-registration district: Deptford, North
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 525
Folio: 173
Page Number: 34
Household schedule number: 218
Household Members:
Name Age
James Measures 28
Jessie Measures 25 - born Holborn
Annie Thackerey 25
Jessie Measures 4
Mabel Measures 4 Weeks


Not that it's helped me find Jessie's birth!

The only Jessie Gearing birth in 1875 or thereabouts in London had mms Morris, which has already been discounted.

https://tinyurl.com/y73h95n7

So was Mary Adelaide Gearing Baptism (Ancestry, London) (2 Smarts Buildings Holborn) same as address for Grandfather William Whinrey Gearing on above, from google search)


If Jessie below...

Burial
County Kent
Place Wouldham
Church name All Saints
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 691
Burial date 22 Dec 1939
Person age 64
Burial person forename Jessie
Burial person surname MEASURES
Burial person abode 42 Magpie Hall Road Chatham

https://www.freereg.org.uk/

Chris :)

(just adding below, as it came up, and probably linked to Marriage below)

Birth
GEARY, MARY ADELAIDE (SHAW)
GRO Reference: 1868 D Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 81


Marriages Jun 1853 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------
Geary Patrick St Giles 1b 542
Shaw Maria St Giles 1b 542


Birth
GEARING, FRANCES ELIZABETH (ASHLEY)
GRO Reference: 1857 M Quarter in ST GILES & ST GEORGE BLOOMSBURY Volume 01B


All London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1916 (Ancestry)

Frances Elizabeth Gearing
21 Dec 1856 St Giles in the Fields, Holborn Camden
John Thomas,
Ann
(Born 2nd Dec. 1856, occ. Carpenter. Abode 29 Comptons?) (if referring to Buildings or Street, not stated)


Birth
GEARING, FRANCES MARIA (WITTON)
GRO Reference: 1859 S Quarter in ST GILES Volume 01B Page 392 Order


Marriages Mar 1856 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------------
Ashley Ann Lambeth 1d 447
Gearing John Thomas Lambeth 1d 447


(below with a Witton)

1861 (Find My Past)
John Gearing Head Married Male 31 1830 Clerk Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
Anne Gearing Wife Married Female 37 (27?) 1824 Seamstress Westminster, Middlesex, England
Francis Gearing Daughter Unmarried Female 1 1860 Daur Holborn, Middlesex, England
Elizabeth Gearing Daughter Unmarried Female 0 1861 Daur Lambeth, Surrey, England
Kate Witton Grandmother Widow Female 60 1801 Grandmother Warehousewoman Newport Pagnell, Buckinghamshire, England
198, Waterloo Road, Lambeth, London & Surrey
County London, Surrey


(no idea on Newport Pagnell below) (as William on FMP)

County Buckinghamshire
Place Newport Pagnell
Church name St Peter and St Paul
Register type Phillimore's Transcripts
Marriage date 24 Feb 1816
Groom forename Mylliam
Groom surname WITTON
Bride forename Catharine
Bride surname MACKBRIGHT

https://www.freereg.org.uk/


(if the Marriage Witness below)


1851 (Find My Past)
Mary Purdy Head Widow Female 48 1803 Waistcoat Maker Chelsea, Middlesex, England
Drury Lane, St Giles in the Fields, St Giles, London & Middlesex,


(below Births for reference William Miller/Gearing Marriage 1887, if them 1901 Deptford, next to Jessie)


Birth
MILLER, ELIZABETH ANNIE (GEARING)
GRO Reference: 1888 S Quarter in ST SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D Page 20


Birth
MILLER, WILLIAM JAMES (GEARING)
GRO Reference: 1890 J Quarter in ST SAVIOUR LONDON Volume 01D Page 46


Edits (notes 1901 Deptford, Annie Age 64 on image)

Message from Jenny, via Ancestry:


I went to post this on Genes but I'd stopped my subs.
i've just read everything and tried to post this, but couldn't.

Hi Thank you everyone that is trying to help. I'm still looking for Jessie Gearing's birth.
On her wedding to James Measures her dad reads Henry Gearing a Cabinet Maker?. Her mum Ann Witton? if i've got it right was married to 2nd husband John Thomas Gearing before Jessies was born, he died before Jessie was born so won't be her dad.
Jessies mum Ann then married James Thackerrey (spelt many ways) there is a census in 1881 where Jessie(written Jessica) and sister Mary are under stepdads name of Thackerrey.
Jessies sister Mary married the surname of Dickeson and Mary is on her mums death certificate when she died. Jessies mum Ann Witton

I think these are Ann Sisters and Brother?
Mary Witton 1813– BIRTH ABT 1813 • Westminster, Middlesex, England DEATH Unknown she married John William Thompson a family sighed the wedding certificates called Pardy/Purdy
Mary was living at Church st, dad was a tailor called William Witton

sister Sarah Witton 1827–1864 BIRTH ABT 1827 • London, England DEATH 16 MARCH 1864 • Brewers Drive, St Giles, London, London, England married Robert Purdy in 1846 She also lived at Church street dad reads Charles William Witton not William, but the same address for the others.

brother Charles William Witton 1831– BIRTH 7 DEC 1831 • St John Westr, Middlesex, England DEATH Unknown he married susan norman as a Widow(i can't find his first wedding). he to was living at Church street, and sister Sarah as Pardy is a witness. Jessies mum Ann Witton her wedding to Charles Ashley in 1853 a witness is Sarah Purdy and dad is William Witton a tailor.

With all of this I still can't find them.
Also look at a census Of Ann Gearing as a widow in 1871 her children are Emily Jane Gearing Ann T Gearing ( T stands for Theresa) Mary A Gearing Maria C Gearing

her children Mary S Gearing Elizabeth A Gearing Catherine M Gearing are missing on the census as they were staying with John Thomas dad William Whinery Gearing, so Ann didn't have all her children with her.

Then look at a census of Jessie Gearing married to James Measures in in 1901 and you'll see Ann Thackerrey on it.
look above them to William Miller married Anne. Anne is Jessie's sister Ann Theresa Gearing, but her dad reads William Gearing. This is an error, because I've found Ann's baptism AND IT READS John Thomas Gearing. A witness is Thomas Woodley (he married Jessie sister Emily Gearing
A witness Mary Gearing was also Jessies sister.
Look at there William Miller and Ann's child Elizabeth Annie aka Lizzie Miller 1888–1972
BIRTH 5 TH JULY 1888 • 7 Kings Beach walk, Southwark, London, London, England
DEATH MAR 1972 • Southwark, London, England married to Alfred Philip Elsey 1882–1948 BIRTH 21 DEC 1882 • Greenwich, London DEATH DEC 1948 • Surrey Mid eastern, Surrey, England

they went to Canada and came back. Elizabeth names her mums Ann Gearing's maiden name as Thackerrey, but I think it was an error as Gran was living and her remarried name was Thackerrey.
Anyone that would like to view my tree, in the hope of finding where there younger years are feel free.
Thank you Jenny

According to the 1939 Register the Jessie Measures mentioned above was a Widow born 18 Jan 1875 address 17 Church Place, Malling, Kent. There are no other Jessie Measures on the Register.

It's possible her birth was registered in the name of whoever the father was - other than Gearing or Thackeray (or variation).

It's a pity the GRO website doesn't allow a search without the child's surname.
The only way round that would be to work down the list of Jessies born 1st qr 1875 in London area - and try them one by one on GRO to see what the mms is.

A very long job!

Have had a PM from Jenny, who is still working on this family, and wondering what became of the SIBLINGS of Ann Gearing, the widowed mother in 1871 below (previously posted by safc, but copied here again for ease of reference):

Also copying details of what Jenny thinks she knows about Ann's siblings, as given in a previous PM (also see my post dated 22 Nov 2017 @ 9:37 ) :

"I think these are Ann Sisters and Brother?
Mary Witton 1813– BIRTH ABT 1813 • Westminster, Middlesex, England DEATH Unknown she married John William Thompson a family sighed the wedding certificates called Pardy/Purdy
Mary was living at Church st, dad was a tailor called William Witton

sister Sarah Witton 1827–1864 BIRTH ABT 1827 • London, England DEATH 16 MARCH 1864 • Brewers Drive, St Giles, London, London, England married Robert Purdy in 1846 She also lived at Church street dad reads Charles William Witton not William, but the same address for the others.

brother Charles William Witton 1831– BIRTH 7 DEC 1831 • St John Westr, Middlesex, England DEATH Unknown he married susan norman as a Widow(i can't find his first wedding). he to was living at Church street, and sister Sarah as Pardy is a witness. Jessies mum Ann Witton her wedding to Charles Ashley in 1853 a witness is Sarah Purdy and dad is William Witton a tailor."





1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
2 Smarts Buildings, St Giles, London, England

Anne Gearing Mother - Female 34 1837 - Middlesex, England
Transcription
Emily Jane Gearing Daughter - Female 8 1863 - Surrey, England
Transcription
Ann T Gearing Daughter - Female 5 1866 - Middlesex, England
Transcription
Mary A Gearing Daughter - Female 2 1869 - Middlesex, England
Transcription
Maria C Gearing Daughter - Female 0 1871 - Middlesex, England


Ann's maiden surname was Witton (sometimes Wetton).

Birth of daughter Emily from 1871 census:

GEARING, EMILY JANE mms WITTON
GRO Reference: 1863 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 295

Ann's first marriage:

Anne Wetton
 in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name:: Anne Wetton
Gender:: Female
Marriage Date:: 10 Oct 1853
Marriage Place:: Saint Anne Soho,Westminster,London,England
Spouse:: Charles Ashley

Her second marriage:

Ann Ashley
 in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932
Report issue
Name:: Ann Ashley [Ann Witton] 
Gender:: Female
Marriage Age:: 20
Record Type:: Marriage
Birth Date:: abt 1836
Marriage Date:: 10 Mar 1856
Marriage Place:: St Mary, Lambeth, Lambeth, England
Father:: William Witton (tailor) 99%)
Witton Susan 47 London C. 1c 24


EDIT:

Oh, bother! to put it mildly!
I had a whole lot after that, about the sisters Sarah and Mary, and some about brother Charles, prior to the records in my next post below - but when I clicked "submit" GR has missed it all out!

Charles and Mary Ann in 1881:

Chas.Wm. Witton
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Chas.Wm. Witton
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Mary Ann Witton
Gender: Male
Where born: Westminster
Civil Parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 10 Lucretia St
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Carpenter
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Waterloo Road Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors:
Piece: 587
Folio: 92
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
Chas.Wm. Witton 50
Mary Ann Witton 45
James Harrison 8
James Witton 24
Winifred Witton 23
Winifrid Witton 4
Catharine M. Witton 4


Charles Wetton
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Charles Wetton
[Charles Witton]
Gender: Male
Age: 66
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1825
Spouse: Mary A Wetton
Birth Place: Westminster, London, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Residence Place: Lambeth, Lambeth, London, England
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Waterloo Road Second
ED, Institution or Vessel: 5
Neighbors:
Piece: 390
Folio: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Wetton 66
Mary A Wetton 50



Possible death of Charles??

Deaths Mar 1899 (>99%)
Whitton Charles 75 Lambeth 1d 208 Scan available - click to view

Now adding the bits about Charles which GR lost.

Jenny mentioned a marriage to Susan Norman, with Charles a widower.

Charles William Witton
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932
Name: Charles William Witton (widower, ostler)
Gender: Male
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 19 Jun 1860
Marriage Place: St John the Evangelist, Lambeth, Lambeth, England
Father: William Witton (tailor)
Spouse: Susan Norman
Register Type: Parish Register
Address: Church Street.

Susan's death ??

Deaths Mar 1870 (>99%)
Witton Susan 47 London C. 1c 24


Here's his presumed third marriage:

Charles William Witton
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932
Name: Charles William Witton (carpenter, widower)
Gender: Male
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 5 Jun 1870
Marriage Place: St Mary, Lambeth, Lambeth, England
Father: William Witton (deceased, tailor)
Spouse: Mary Ann Fleming
Register Type: Parish Register
Address: Charles Street.

Then they're in 1881 and 1891 in my previous post.

1871 ????? same man ??:

Charles William Wilton
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Charles William Wilton
Age: 46
Estimated birth year: 1825
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Leamington
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Waterloo Road Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 137
Piece: 654
Folio: 64
Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles William Wilton 46 - ostler
Mary Ann Wilton 35
James Wilton 17 - born Bombay


So possibly Charles's first marriage:

Charles Witton
in the India, Select Marriages, 1792-1948
Name: Charles Witton
Gender: Male
Marital status: Single
Age: 19
Birth Date: 1825
Marriage Date: 11 Mar 1844
Marriage Place: Bycullah, Bombay, India
Father: William Witton
Spouse: Sarah Anne Turnash
FHL Film Number: 523843


Another child ??

Charles William Witten
in the India, Select Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
Name: Charles William Witten
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 14 Dec 1845
Baptism Date: 28 Dec 1845
Baptism Age: 0
Baptism Place: Bombay, Bombay, India
Father: Charles William Witten
Mother: Sarah
Reference ID: v 19 p 306
FHL Film Number: 523844


and another:

Henry William Witton
in the Victoria, Australia, St. Peter's Eastern Hill, Baptisms, 1848-1915
Name: Henry William Witton
Birth Date: 16 Jul 1857
Baptism Date: 8 Nov 1857
Baptism Place: Melbourne, Bourke, Victoria, Australia
Parish: St. Peter's Eastern Hill
Father: Charles William Witton (formerly sexton in India )
Mother: Sarah Ann Witton

Possibly Charles and Susan in 1861???

Charles Whitton
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Charles Whitton
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: 1827
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Susanah Whitton
Gender: Male
Where born: Westminster St Johns
Civil Parish: St Giles
Ecclesiastical parish: London
Town: London
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: St Giles
Sub-registration district: St Giles South
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 161
Piece: 168
Folio: 98
Page Number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Whitton 34
Susanah Whitton 34 - ostler
Sussand Whitton 11
James Whitton 6

But both children re said to be born in Westminster.

So maybe the man in India and Australia is a different Charles Witton with father William ??

Re Ann's possible sister Sarah:

Sarah Witton
 in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932
Name:Sarah Witton
Gender:Female
Record Type:Marriage
Marriage Date:12 Jan 1846
Marriage Place:St John the Evangelist, Lambeth, Lambeth, England
Father:Charles William Witton (tailor)
Spouse:Robert Pardy (bricklayer)
Register Type:Parish Register


???
Sarah Witten
 in the 1841 England Census
Name:Sarah Witten
Age:14
Estimated birth year:abt 1827
Gender:Female
Where born:Middlesex, England
Civil Parish:St Botolph Aldersgate
Hundred:London Without the Walls
County/Island:Middlesex
Country:England
Street address:
Registration district:East London
Sub-registration district:Cripplegate
Piece:724
Book:9
Folio:13
Page Number:20
Household Members:
Name
Age
Charles Bailey 30
Mary Bailey 25
Emma Bailey 5
Charles Bailey 3
Sarah Witten 14


Robert and Sarah in 1851:

Sarah Purdy
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Sarah Purdy
[Sarah Hope]
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1827
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Robert Purdy
Mother's name: Catherine Hope
Gender: Female
Where born: St John Westr, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Westminster St John the Evangelist
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration district: Westminster
Sub-registration district: St John
ED, institution, or vessel: 01
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 144
Piece: 1479
Folio: 20
Page Number: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Purdy 22 - carman
Sarah Purdy 24
Robert Purdy 3
Catherine Hope 51 - mother-in-law, Newport Pagnell
William Hope 17 - brother-in-law
Anne Hope 15 - sister-in-law


Probably Catherine's first marriage to Wiliam Witton:

William Witton
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: William Witton
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 24 Feb 1816
Marriage Place: Newport-Pagnell, Buckingham, England
Spouse: Catherine Mackbright
FHL Film Number: 1042394
Reference ID: item 1 p 25

I don't see her second marriage to Mr Hope, so far.



Robert and Sarah in 1861:

Sarah Purdy
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Sarah Purdy
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: 1827
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Robert Purdy
Gender: Female
Where born: Westminster
Civil Parish: Westminster St Martin in the Fields
Town: London
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: St Martin In The Fields
Sub-registration district: Long Acre
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 251
Piece: 59
Folio: 50
Page Number: 43
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Purdy 37 - drayman
Sarah Purdy 34
Robert Purdy 14


Sarah Purday
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Sarah Purday
Registration Year: 1864
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: St Giles
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1b
Page: 411


Robert's remarriage:

Robert Purdy
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Robert Purdy
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 20 Aug 1865
Marriage Place: Saint Martin In The Fields,Westminster,London,England
Spouse: Eliza Newbery


Robert Purdy
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Robert Purdy
Age: 57
Estimated birth year: abt 1824
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Eliza Purdy
Gender: Male
Where born: Clerkenwell
Civil Parish: St Giles in the Fields
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 192 Drury Lane
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Labourer
Registration district: St Giles
Sub registration district: St Giles, South
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors:
Piece: 323
Folio: 87
Page Number: 2
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Purdy 57 labourer
Eliza Purdy 37
Louise Purdy 9
Robert Purdy 7
Charlotte Purdy 4
Alice Purdy 2
John Sml. Purdy


PURDY, LOUISA mms NEWBERY
GRO Reference: 1872 M Quarter in ST GILES Volume 01B Page 541