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I've sent a message to Mark explaining the confusion.

I'm hoping he'll get back to us with more details as to how he got to Thomas and Mary. I'm keen to know who he descends from. It seems quite a few trees on ancestry have made the assumptions on both these families that are incorrect.

Elizabeth Conroy is my foster mothers great grandmother b. 1861-1941 her brother is Michael J Conroy - Michael J Conroy is the son of Mary Neaham and Thomas Conroy - I hope this goes some way to clearing up how the line is.. I have information proving this line so know that it is correct. Many thanks in advance

Hello Mark- thanks for getting back to us- can you confirm who Elizabeth married please?

Elizabeth married William Bellard

If below is Son of that Thomas And Alice...

Chris :)

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/memorials/canadian-virtual-war-memorial/detail/78338

(Born: April 21, 1891 Son of Thomas and Alice Conroy, of Chorley, Lancs.)


Birth
CONROY, EDWARD (GABBOTT)
GRO Reference: 1891 J Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06C Page 135

(photo on below, Find A Grave)

https://tinyurl.com/y6w3nyeg

Ahhh- well this is where the confusion is! Eliza/ Elizabeth's mother was maiden name Ball

This is Eliza/ Elizabeth's birth and her siblings listed on the GRO- now giving mother's maiden names:

CONROY, TIMOTHY mmn: BALL
GRO Reference: 1858 S Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 415

CONROY, ELIZA mmn: BALL
GRO Reference: 1861 J Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 473

CONROY, THOMAS mmn: BALL
GRO Reference: 1865 M Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 598

CONROY, JAMES mmn: BALL
GRO Reference: 1868 D Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 571

Also two sisters born in Ireland- Ann & Mary
---------------------------------------------------------------

This is her and family in 1861: (name are mistrascribed)

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Off Stone Lane, Ditton, Prescot, Lancashire, England

Thomas Conrey Head Married Male 30 1831 Agricultural Labourer Ireland
Mary Conrey Wife Married Female 26 1835 - Ireland
Ann Conrey Daughter - Female 9 1852 Scholar Ireland
Mary Conrey Daughter - Female 6 1855 Scholar Ireland
Timothy Conrey Son - Male 3 1858 - Widnes, Lancashire, England
Eliza Conrey Daughter - Female 0 1861 - Lancashire, England
James Conrey Brother Unmarried Male 27 1834 Agricultural Labourer Ireland
--------------------------------------------------------

and 1871:

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Marsh End Lane, Ditton, Prescot, Lancashire, England

Thomas Conroy Head - Male 44 1827 - Ireland
Mary Conroy Wife - Female 40 1831 - Ireland
Mary Conroy Daughter - Female 16 1855 - Ireland
Timothy Conroy Son - Male 13 1858 - Lancashire, England
Eliza Conroy Daughter - Female 10 1861 - Lancashire, England
Thomas Conroy Son - Male 5 1866 - Lancashire, England
James Conroy Son - Male 2 1869 - Lancashire, England
Patrick Cassidy Boarder - Male 30 1841 - Ireland
Kate Lyons Boarder - Female 28 1843 - Ireland

and 1881:

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Marsh End Lane, Ditton, Prescot, Lancashire, England

Thomas Conroy Head Married Male 55 1826 Road Maker (Road Lab) Ireland
Mary Conroy Wife Married Female 50 1831 Road Maker Wife Ireland
Elizabeth Ballard Daughter Married Female 20 1861 Quarry Mans Wife Ditton, Lancashire,
Thomas Conroy Son Single Male 16 1865 Gen Lab Ditton, Lancashire, England
James Conroy Son Single Male 12 1869 Scholar Ditton, Lancashire, England
Mary Ballard Grand Daughter Single Female 2 1879 - Ditton, Lancashire, England
Ann Neaham Mother In Law Married Female 84 1797 Formerly Cabmans Wife Ireland
----------------------------

and 1891:

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Marsh End Road, Ditton, Prescot, Lancashire, England

Thomas Conroy Head Married Male 61 1830 Labourer General Ireland
Mary Conroy Wife Married Female 60 1831 - Ireland
James Conroy Son Single Male 23 1868 Agricultural Labourer Lancashire, England
William Hellard Son In Law Married Male 34 1857 Steam Engine Fitter Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Hellard Daughter Married Female 30 1861 - Lancashire, England
Mary Hellard Granddaughter - Female 12 1879 Scholar Lancashire, England
Thomas Hellard Grandson - Male 9 1882 Scholar Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Hellard Granddaughter - Female 7 1884 Scholar Lancashire, England
John Hellard Grandson - Male 5 1886 Scholar Lancashire, England
Margaret Hellard Granddaughter - Female 3 1888 Scholar Lancashire, England
Agnes May Hellard Granddaughter - Female 1 1890 - Ditton, Lancashire, England

I added below earlier...(if any help with things, lol)

Chris :)

Marriages Mar 1878 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------
Ballard William Liverpool 8b 130
CONROY Elizabeth Liverpool 8b 130

Edits (above on below, her Father Thomas Conroy occ. Labourer. Residence at Time for both, Stanley St.

Liverpool, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921 (Ancestry)


Edits (on checking that image again, her age 20, his 22. His occ. Quarryman, his Father John Ballard occ. Ropemaker. Witnesses, John Garner, Mary Buck)

(age 20?)


(now not sure on below, as Marriage not until 1878!. I've officially lost the plot. lol)

1871 (Find My Past)
John Ballard Head - Male 48 1823 - Lancashire, England (Rope Maker)
Elizabeth Ballard Wife - Female 45 1826 - Lancashire, England
Ann Ballard Daughter - Female 26 1845 - Lancashire, England
Margaret Ballard Daughter - Female 24 1847 - Lancashire, England
John Ballard Son - Male 18 1853 - Lancashire, England
William Ballard Son - Male 16 1855 - Lancashire, England (Gardener's Labourer)
Elizabeth Ballard Daughter - Female 14 1857 - Lancashire, England
Thomas Ballard Son - Male 12 1859 - Lancashire, England
Henry Ballard Son - Male 9 1862 - Lancashire, England
Sarah Ballard Granddaughter - Female 4 1867 - Lancashire, England
Mary Buck Daughter - Female 20 1851 - Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Buck Granddaughter - Female 3 1868 - Lancashire, England
Anne J Buck Granddaughter - Female 2 1869 - Lancashire, England
Etna Street, West Derby, Lancashire

(Birthplace, West Derby for all)


Baptism: 13 Jun 1859 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Thomas Bellard - [Child] of John Bellard & Elizabeth
Born: 12 Apr 1859
Abode: Windsor
Occupation: Rope Maker
Baptised by: W. H. Denny Curate
Register: Baptisms 1859, Page 143, Entry 1139
Source: LDS Film 1656561


Baptism: 24 Oct 1864 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Henry Ballard - [Child] of John Ballard & Elizabeth
Born: 20 Jan 1862
Abode: Copperas Hill
Occupation: Rope Maker
Baptised by: C. R. Hyde, Curate
Register: Baptisms 1864 - 1865, Page 175, Entry 1396
Source: LDS Film 93892

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html


Marriages Dec 1866 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------
Bellard Mary Liverpool 8b 272
Buck William Liverpool 8b 272


(and no idea if this is relating to Bellard!)


Can we have details from Bellard Marriage Cert. if you have them please Mark...

I just don't see a Michael Conroy that is the brother of Elizabeth that married William Bellard.

Where did your information come from?

There is no Michael on the census with Elizabeth and family (1861- 1891 listed above). I can't find his birth on the GRO.

I hope you'll get back to us- lots of people on Ancestry have used the wrong 1861 census for this family- is that where the son Michael comes from?

Please take the time to go through the census I've posted above and let us know what you think.

Marsh End Lane, Ditton is correct.

Margaret Hellard Granddaughter - Female 3 1888 Scholar Lancashire, England - this is my foster mothers grandmother - her fathers mother

So where did Michael J Conroy 1860 come from?

Is it possible you were looking at the wrong 1861 census?

I think it must be an error which I will amend - many thanks to everyone who has helped clear this up

So Ann Neaham must previously have been Ball, as already thought.

Can't find any marriage.

Or maybe the description of "mother-in-law" is wrong.

I don't see a marriage either- although I'm not entirely sure Neaham was her surname. It's certainly not a common name.

I also don't see a marriage for Thomas Conroy and Mary Ball- Presumably, as the first children were born in Ireland if there was a marriage it would've been in Ireland. It's also possible that the girls born in Ireland could have a different mother or father.

Unfortunately the census returns for Mary don't state where abouts in Ireland she was born. However, looking at the daughters, Ann & Mary- I think I found Ann's place of birth-

Firstly, this is Mary in 1901 (her age is out but she's at the same address):

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
St Michaels Road Marsh End, Ditton, Prescot, Lancashire, England

Mary Conroy Head Widow Female 64 1837 - Ireland
Owen Donnelly Boarder Single Male 28 1873 Copper Works Laborer Ireland
James Sweeney Boarder - Male 63 1838 Copper Works Laborer Widnes, Lancashire,
------------------------------------

Ann married John Tallon in 1873 Prescot. This is Ann in 1911- note she's at the same Road as Mary and has the same lodger living with her as Mary:-

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
St Michaels Road Ditton, Ditton, Lancashire, England

John Tallon Head Married Male Chemical Manuf Worker 59 1852 Newton Le Willows
Ann Tallon Wife Married Female At Home 58 1853 Queens County Lerbank
Aloysius James Tallon Son Single Male Stone Keeper 29 1882 Lancshire Ditton
Mary Agnes Tallon Daughter Single Female At Home 27 1884 Lancshire Ditton
Moses Tallon Son Single Male Chemical Works Chemist 25 1886 Lancshire Ditton
William Tallon Son Single Male Barman 23 1888 Lancshire Ditton
Margaret Tallon Daughter Single Female Nursey Governess 20 1891 Lancshire Ditton
Owen Donnelly Boarder Single Male General Labourer 38 1873 Dublin City Ireland
-------------------------------------

So Ann was born Queen's County (this is also stated on the 1881 census). Not that this helps at the moment- but at least we now have an idea where Thomas and Mary came from.

(interrupts!, just to add in Remembrance for Moses Tallon)

Chris :)

https://www.everyoneremembered.org/profiles/soldier/814690/

(Son of John and Anne Tallon, of 156, Hale Rd., Ditton, Widnes, Lancs.)


18 August 1916 - Liverpool Daily Post - Liverpool, Merseyside, England

Widnes Casualties.
M. Tallon, of the Suffolk Regiment, is reported missing. His parents live at St. Michael’s-road, Ditton. Tallon served long in the 5th South Lancashires before receiving his commission. He was in the employ of the United Alkali Company as a chemist.

Oh that's fab Chris- I was struggling to find Ann on the 1939 register- she didn't die until 1943- so now found her with that address:

Sallow Household 152 Hale Road , Widnes M.B., Lancashire, England

Anne Sallow 21 Jun 1853 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed
Mary A Sallow - Female Incapacitated Single
Margaret Sallow 01 Sep 1895 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Single
Jane Anthony 02 Feb 1879 Female School Teacher Single

Surname Tallon on original

Mary Ann's DOB first says: 28 Aug 1883- but written over the top is 8 May 1884

(oh there!, lol, didn't want to interrupt your train of thought, concentration needed!)

Chris :)

Morning Chris- it's all useful stuff. I'm just trying to find a birth for the girls in Ireland, or a marriage for Thomas and Mary.

(hmm, that's probably as tough as watching this rain splotting me begonias, lol)

Chris :)

Lol- yes, still raining here. Dismal day.

Finally found Mary- the other daughter born in Ireland (c1855).

Mary married Peter Mccartan in 1873 and had the following children (and more)- the name later changes to McCarthy/ McCarty:

MCCARTEN, FRANCIS CONROY
GRO Reference: 1875 M Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 634

MCCARTEN, THOMAS CONROY
GRO Reference: 1876 S Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 655

MCCARTIN, MICHAEL CONROY
GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 673

MCCARTEN, PETER CONROY
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 685

It took me a while to find them- this is them in 1881:

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
19, Milton Road, Widnes, Prescot, Lancashire, England

Peter Carter Head Married Male 40 1841 Labourer In Alkali Works (Manuf) Ireland
Mary Carter Wife Married Female 26 1855 - Ireland
Francis Carter Son Single Male 6 1875 Scholar Widnes, Lancashire, England
Thomas Carter Son Single Male 4 1877 - Widnes, Lancashire, England
Michael Carter Son Single Male 3 1878 - Widnes, Lancashire, England
Peter Carter Son Single Male 1 1880 - Widnes, Lancashire, England
--------------------------------

1891:
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Oxford Street, Widnes, Prescot, Lancashire, England

Peter McCarthy Head Married Male 42 1849 Alkali Labourer Ireland
Mary McCarthy Wife Married Female 34 1857 - Ireland
Francis McCarthy Son Single Male 16 1875 Copper Works Labourer Lancashire,
Thomas McCarthy Son Single Male 15 1876 Brickmaker Labourer Lancashire,
Michael McCarthy Son - Male 13 1878 Alkali Labourer Lancashire, England
Peter McCarthy Son - Male 12 1879 Scholar Lancashire, England
James McCarthy Son - Male 11 1880 Scholar Lancashire, England
Timothy McCarthy Son - Male 5 1886 Scholar Lancashire, England
John McCarthy Son - Male 5 1886 Scholar Lancashire, England
Patrick McCarthy Son - Male 2 1889 - Lancashire, England
---------------------------------------

1901:
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
14, Oxford Street, Widnes, Prescot, Lancashire, England

Peter McCarthy Head Married Male 52 1849 Chemical Laborer Ireland
Mary McCarthy Wife Married Female 46 1855 - Ireland
Michael McCarthy Son Single Male 23 1878 Foundry Laborer Widnes, Lancashire,
Peter McCarthy Son Single Male 21 1880 Foundry Laborer Widnes, Lancashire,
James McCarthy Son Single Male 19 1882 Foundry Laborer Widnes, Lancashire,
Timothy McCarthy Son Single Male 15 1886 - Widnes, Lancashire, England
John McCarthy Son Single Male 12 1889 Plumbers Labourer Widnes, Lancashire, England
Patrick McCarthy Son Single Male 12 1889 - Widnes, Lancashire
----------------------------------------

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
14 Oxford Street Widnes, Widnes, Lancashire, England

Peter McCarthy Head Married Male Road Sweeper 60 1851 Ireland
Mary McCarthy Wife Married Female - 52 1859 Ireland
Peter McCarthy Son Single Male Labourer Chemical 28 1883 Lancashire Widnes
Timothy McCarthy Son Single Male Waggoner Coal 23 1888 Lancashire Widnes
Patrick McCarthy Son Single Male Labor Chemical 20 1891 Lancashire Widnes
------------------------------

Unfortunately all the census just list Ireland as Mary's place of birth

Now looking at James Conroy born c1834- listed as Thomas' brother on the 1861 census.

James married Jane Elizabeth Lawrenson in 1862- marriage certificate would give you James' (and Thomas') father's name.

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
John Street, Widnes, Prescot, Lancashire, England

James Conroy Head - Male 37 1834 - Ireland
Jane E Conroy Wife - Female 32 1839 - Lancashire, England
------------------------

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Highfield Road, Widnes, Prescot, Lancashire, England

James Conroy Head Married Male 44 1837 Platelayer Ireland
Jane Elizth Conroy Wife Married Female 41 1840 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Mary Ellen Bonny Niece Single Female 7 1874 Scholar Widnes, Lancashire, England
James Quigley Lodger Single Male 25 1856 Farm Laborer Ireland

(Mary Ellen Bonny is Jane's niece)
---------------------------------

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Lower House Road, Widnes, Prescot, Lancashire, England

James Conroy Head Married Male 56 1835 Labourer Under Local Bd Ireland
Jane Conroy Wife Married Female 52 1839 - Lancashire, England
Bridget Doyle Lodger Widow Female 57 1834 - Ireland
---------------------------------

Jane dies in 1900

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
24, Gladstone Street, Widnes, Prescot, Lancashire, England

John Fazackerley Head Married Male 37 1864 Railway Engine Driver Widnes, Lancashire, England
Mary Fazackerley Wife Married Female 27 1874 - Halewood, Lancashire, England
James Cowey Uncle Widower Male 67 1834 General Labourer Queen's County, Ireland
--------------------------------------------

Jane's niece Mary Ellen Bonny married John Fazackerley