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It's worth checking out anyway Alan and if someone has Ancestry sub they might be able to find a bit more as the London records there are very useful.

Brilliant. I think you must be right. Good new leads to work on to get back a generation
Thanks for this.

The brother's (?) family in 1851, just trying to establish some links...the occupation is the same

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Rawstorne Street, Clerkenwell, London, England


Henry Glover Head Married Male 37 1814 Cabman Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
Jane Glover Wife Married Female 38 1813 - Lynn, Norfolk, England
George Glover Son Unmarried Male 17 1834 - Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
Henry Glover Son - Male 15 1836 - Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England

I'm wondering about this one? Although on the 1851 it gives the children's place of birth as France, the names and ages here tie in for daughters Harriet and Ellen

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Elbow Place, St Luke, London, England


Joseph Glover Male 40 1801 Middlesex, England
Harriet Glover Female 25 1816 Middlesex, England
Harriet Glover Female 4 1837 Middlesex, England
Ellen Glover Female 0 1841 Middlesex, England

Same household possibly Joseph's brother?

Henry Glover Male 25 1816 Middlesex, England
Jane Glover Female 25 1816 Middlesex, England
George Glover Male 6 1835 Middlesex, England
Henry Glover Male 4 1837 Middlesex, England

Thanks for your help. The family I hope to work back from is as follows -

Joseph Glover Head Married Male 52 1799 Cab Driver Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
Harriet Glover Wife Married Female 40 1811 - St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Harriet Glover Daughter Unmarried Female 15 1836 Chelas Maid France
Ellen Glover Daughter Unmarried Female 10 1841 Scholar France
Joseph Glover Son Unmarried Male 6 1845 Scholar France (BS British Subject)

I know that the son Joseph, born 1845 was also a Carman when he married Mary Gosling in 1867. The witnesses were John and Eliza Gosling, the former being a fishing rod maker. He then had a son, which they also called Joseph in 1868 and thereafter, along with John, Harry and Louisa, had a daughter which they named Harriet which seems to reflect a family link
Its Joseph who was born in 1799 I know little about. Would he and his wife have been in France for some time, military??I do know he was deceased by the time his son married in 1867 in Bethnal Green (thus the Goslings witnessing) and assume he was married by 1844/5?
Appreciate the help
Alan

Hi Alan,

Could you please give us ALL the details from that marriage cert - addresses, ages, occupations, especially the witnesses who could possibly be family members which might help.

Thanks,

Dea x

The 1841 census is the earliest really but as the children were born in France between 1836 and '45 it probably won't help, Familysearch would be one place to look for anything prior to that.

What date was the earliest census? 1851? Where do you recommend to go to research someone born in 1799?

The children were born in France, so the assumption might be that their father was working there or was in the military?

this 'could' be the Harriet born in 1811 ( not finding them on the 1861 as yet)

GLOVER, HARRIET 41 Order
GRO Reference: 1851 D Quarter in THE ISLINGTON DISTRICT Volume 03 Page 185

I am sure the detail provided by Nyx contained in the 1871 Census is our man and the Clerkenwell/Islington link makes the last set of details from the 1851 Census the most probable next generation back. Does anyone have an idea why the three children would have moved to France at that particular time and how I might research more about Joseph Glover born in 1799?.

Really appreciate your help with this!!

There's also this one

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Waters Court, Islington, London, England

Joseph Glover Head Married Male 52 1799 Cab Driver Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
Harriet Glover Wife Married Female 40 1811 - St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Harriet Glover Daughter Unmarried Female 15 1836 Chelas Maid France
Ellen Glover Daughter Unmarried Female 10 1841 Scholar France
Joseph Glover Son Unmarried Male 6 1845 Scholar France (BS British Subject)

NOTE:-

It is important to realise that because a marriage certificate says that a father is deceased, it does NOT mean that the father really was dead!

It just means that child may have lost touch with the father, the father might have left the family and "disappeared", or the child was in fact under age, said they were of full age and father was deceased

Similarly, just because the father is not said to be does mean that he is alive ............ the vicar may not have asked the correct question, "is your father still alive?"!

This is the St George Hanover one born 1841 mmn Allen

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
King Street, St George Hanover Square, London, England

George Stiller Male 25 1816 -
Rebecca Stiller Female 30 1811 -
James Kendrick Male 70 1771 Ireland
Mary Kendrick Female 60 1781 -
James Dee Male 30 1811 -
Esther Dee Female 30 1811 -
Mary Chapman Female 35 1806 -
Matilda Barnett Female 30 1811 -
Frances Wood Female 25 1816 -
Mary Glover Female 30 1811 - <<<<<<<<<<<
Joseph Glover Male 0 1841 Middlesex, England <<<<<<

It would seem more likely that the Newington birth is the Joseph with wife Ann...

so back to square one maybe...

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Clarke Street, St James Clerkenwell, Holborn, London, England


Joseph Glover Head - Male 27 1844 - London, Middlesex, England
Mary Glover Wife - Female 23 1848 - London, Middlesex, England
Joseph Glover Son - Male 3 1868 - London, Middlesex, England
John Glover Son - Male 1 1870 - London, Middlesex, England

Looking again at Joseph on the 1871, there is also this one who was born Newington,

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Azenby Square, South Side, St Giles, Camberwell, London, England


Joseph Glover Head - Male 28 1843 - Surrey, England POB Newington

Ann E Glover Wife - Female 39 1832 - Wiltshire, England Transcription
William J Glover Son - Male 1 1870 - Surrey, England

Alan if you go on to the GRO index you can look for yourself, it's free but you have to register.

There are very few Joseph Glovers born 2 years either side of 1844, in the London area.

this is the one with mmn Newman as posted
Births Jun 1843 (>99%)
GLOVER Joseph Newington 4 328

the only other possible between 1841 and 1846 is this one
Births Mar 1841 (>99%)
Glover Joseph Glover St. Geo: Hanr. Sqre. 1 23

I am sure I am looking for a Joseph Glover, married by 1844, deceased by 1867 and who had a son by the same name around 1844. I suspect he was north of the Thames divide too, Islington, Clerkenwell ...........................................

He was a widower at the marriage to Caroline.


John Glover
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name:
John Glover
Spouse:
Caroline Newman
Record Type:
Marriage
Event Date:
22 Jul 1827
Parish:
St Mary, Newington
Borough:
Southwark

Most likely death ?

GLOVER, JOHN 53 Order
GRO Reference: 1848 M Quarter in ST. MARY NEWINGTON Volume 04 Page 325

These are the others
GLOVER, JOHN age 28 Order
GRO Reference: 1842 J Quarter in ST MARY NEWINGTON Volume 04 Page 213
GLOVER, JOHN age 44 Order
GRO Reference: 1843 D Quarter in ST MARY NEWINGTON Volume 04 Page 258

there are 3 deaths in Newington for john glover from 1842 to 1848