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Just for ref Joseph John and Mary nee grimes 1901 with son George, Joseph using middle name

John James
in the 1901 England Census

Name: John James ( Fish hawker)
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1877
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Mary James
Birth Place: Plymouth, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Plymouth

Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Devon

Registration district: Plymouth
Sub-registration district: St Andrew
ED, institution, or vessel: 06
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2099
Folio: 55
Page Number: 20
Household schedule number: 141
Household Members:
Name Age
John James 24
Mary James 23
George James 1

Marriages Jun 1915 (>99%)

Constant Annie E James Plymouth 5b 747
James Joseph J Constant Plymouth 5b 747

James Household (4 People)
31 Briardale Road , Plymouth C.B., Devon, England

Joseph J James
DOB 14 Sep 1877
SEX Male
OCCUPATION Labourer General
MARITAL STATUS Married
SCHEDULE 249
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 2

Annie E James
DOB 11 Apr 1898
SEX Female
OCCUPATION Unpaid Domestic Duties
MARITAL STATUS Married
SCHEDULE 249
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 1
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.

I would be inclined to get that Dorothy Iris J mmn Roberts birth cert

it ties with the qtr the birth would be reg in . Mother is unmarried so maybe she unofficially gave her daughter for long term fostering that eventually became an adoption . it could have been again just unofficial

The marriage of that couple
Marriages Dec 1898 (>99%)

Grimes Mary Ann E Plymouth 5b 550
James Joseph John Plymouth 5b 550

confirmed by children's births on GRO index

JAMES, REGINALD SIDNEY CHARLES GRIMES Order
GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 05B Page 231

JAMES, JOSEPH GEORGE GRIMES Order
GRO Reference: 1899 D Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 05B Page 243

?

Deaths Sep 1940 (>99%)
James Joseph J 63 Plymouth 5b 767

simply because of the area and occupation


1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
49 Stillman St Plymouth, Plymouth, Devon, England


First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
Joseph John James Head Married Male Fish Hawker 35 1876 Plymouth Devon
Mary Ann James Wife Married Female - 34 1877 Plymouth Devon
George James Son - Male - 12 1899 Plymouth Devon
Alfred James Son - Male - 8 1903 Plymouth Devon
Reginald James Son - Male - 2 1909 Plymouth Devon


Name: Joseph J James
Birth Date: abt 1877
Date of Registration: Sep 1940
Age at Death: 63
Registration district: Plymouth
Inferred County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 767

Hi All
Thanks for the info about where to buy the certificates. Ones I bought previously through Ancestary.com and they were very expensive -£22 with a 3 week wait too.
Anyhow I have obtained the marriage certificate for Albert Henry Cull and Dorothy Iris Joan James (9th July 1947). It gave her age as 22 and her Fathers name as Joseph John James (Deceased)-a Fish Hawker.One of the witnesses has crossed off a name and put ames as surname but I can't quite make the original out- could be Harris

Will this help any in my research thanks again

In case you don't know Kevin.........the best place to order certificates in online here....

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

Prickles;o))

Will do. Thank you- I like this web site

As Sylvia has said, the marriage certificate may give Dorothy's name in full and possibly a father's name either real or adopted. It may then help to trace them on the 1939 register although Dorothy's record is probably still closed.

As you seem to know she was born in Plymouth, I personally would be inclined to buy that Dorothy I. J. Roberts birth certificate to see the exact DOB and check if it matches your Dorothy's DOB.

If you do buy any of the certificates, it would be good if you returned to the thread to let us know the outcome.

Kevin ............

the marriage certificate will spell out all names in full, so if you buy the certificate, you will find out. Otherwise it is guesswork!

The son of Dorothy and Albert Cull knew his mother was adopted and "thinks" she was Dorothy Jones- could that possibly be the J of Dorothy I J James??

Thanks so much for your advice all ????

I think if I was Kevin, I would be buying that birth certificate to see who the Mum was and then try to trace the Mum. Without her name it is very difficult for us to find a possible marriage for her. It may even be the case that she never married but lived with the father of her daughter who was then known by his surname.


I would certainly buy the marriage certificate to see if she names a father. An address and the names of the witnesses may also help to track down the correct birth.

I looked for a marriage for a dorthy I j Roberts could not find one

I thought that too Malyon when I posted that birth earlier as it tie in with the DOB given on the death I posted. Only snag is, I can't see that couple on the 1939 register to see if there is a closed record with them.

could this be her mothers marriage

Marriages Jun 1933 
James
 Henry W
 Roberts
 Plymouth
 5b
626
  
ROBERTS
 Ethel M
 James
 Plymouth
 5b
626

could this be Dorothy

Births Sep 1924
Roberts
 Dorothy I J
 Roberts
 Plymouth
 5b
377

could be her mother married a james and changed her name

First name(s) DOROTHY IRIS J
Last name CULL
Gender Female
Birth day 12
Birth month 7
Birth year 1924
Age -
Death quarter 1
Death year 2001
District Birmingham
District number 0611H
Register number H18B
Entry number 065
Date of registration mm/yy 0101
County Warwickshire
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007