Find Ancestors

Thank you all for your help.

Thank you for finding the info SAFC and also explaining it Jude. Also for the Baptism info Chris!

I think that definitely makes sense judging by the census returns for Bertha, the fact that she is living with grandparents at one point too. I think it does all add up!

I have asked family if there is any other info about Bertha that has been spoke about, just in case that can clarify anything, but we will see.

I will report back.

I didn't realise the 1939 was touched on, on another of my thread, I wasn't intending to duplicate. I will look into that.
I need to concentrate on 1 person at a time as I tend to drift off to someone else and then forget what has been found and then I get confused!

Thanks for people continuing to help.
:-D :-S :-S

looks like bertha and sister Florence married on the same day

That's definitely Harold (from his death notice)

Name: Harold Leonard Bowen
Birth Date: 4 Jan 1917
Date of Registration: May 1988
Age at Death: 71
Registration district: Luton
Inferred County: Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire
Volume: 9
Page: 425

And the death for Bertha E in Bridgend shows on GRO as Bertha Elizabeth. - Llantwit Fardre is about 16 miles from Bridgend

Jude

Some information was already found on your other thread:

Did you not consider this 1939 entry of Bertha with her son Harold- that was posted:

Bowen Household (2 People) 3 Pengarreg Road , Llantrisant and Llantwit Fardre R.D., Glamorganshire, Wales

Bertha Bowen 15 Jan 1887 Female Domestic Duties Unpaid Widowed
Harold Bowen 04 Jan 1916 Male Brick Worker Single
Closed Record

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1365796?page=0

Things coming up on google search...

Chris :)


Winterbourne Parish Records - Frenchay Museum Archives

www.frenchaymuseumarchives.co.uk/.../Winterbourne/Winterbourne_1868-1899_Ba...

10 April 1881 bap Bertha Elizabeth bn 13 Jan 81 Elizabeth Bisp Winterbourn ...


1900-1930 - Frenchay Museum Archives

www.frenchaymuseumarchives.co.uk/.../Winterbourne/Winterbourne_1900-1930_Ba...

4 Aug 1915 bap Florence Hilda Charles & Bertha Bowen Winterbourne Miner ...



1900-1930 - Frenchay Museum Archives

www.frenchaymuseumarchives.co.uk/.../Winterbourne/Winterbourne_1900-1930_Ba...

3 Dec 1905 bap Arthur Charles Edward bn 3 Oct 05 Charles & Bertha Bowen ...

There's also a brother Alfred Edward born in 1895

Jude

Reading this post, I think safc is saying that Bertha Elizabeth (Elizabeth Bertha) was illegitimate and was born before her mother married Arthur Smart. In the GRO for her, as Elizabeth Bertha, there is no MMN shown but we know it was Bisp.

Her sisters show as

Hannah - MMN Bliss
Alice, Hilda, Florence (Louisa Florence) and Lily as Bisp
Can't find Esther - but there is Ethel Bisp

So agree you need to get the marriage certificate to Charles Bowen and see if a father is named :-)

Jude

Lots of information again...
thank you all so much....
so I'm a little confused ... where does it look like the Bisp family come into it, was that Bertha Smart's mothers maiden name?

And if I'm looking right, Bertha probably died 1950 as that's the death reg that's in Wales and looking more likely! Which means she may well be somewhere on the 1939 in Wales
:-D
Hopefully will find her :-)

Thanks everyone so far !

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Winterbourne, Barton Regis, Gloucestershire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Hannah Bisp Head Widow Female 66 1835 - Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Edward Bisp Son Single Male 25 1876 Stone Mason Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Bertha Smart Visitor Single Female 20 1881 Tailoress Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Winterbourne Hill, Winterbourne, Barton Regis, Gloucestershire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Robert Bisp Head Married Male 66 1825 Gen Labourer Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Hannah Bisp Wife Married Female 56 1835 Tailoress Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Alice Bisp Daughter Single Female 17 1874 Tailoress Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Frederick Bisp Son Single Male 20 1871 Stone Mason Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Edwin Bisp Son Single Male 15 1876 Stone Mason Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England


no elizabeth or bertha ?

think you need the marriage cert

to see who she names as father

Married Charles Bowen in 1903 in Barton Regis,

????

BISP, ELIZABETH BERTHA - Order
GRO Reference: 1881 M Quarter in BARTON REGIS Volume 06A Page 206

????


1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Winterbourn Hill, Winterbourne, Barton Regis, Gloucestershire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Robt Bisp Head Married Male 55 1826 Ag Lb Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Hannah Bisp Wife Married Female 45 1836 - Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Maria Bisp Daughter Single Female 21 1860 - Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Elizabeth Bisp Daughter Single Female 20 1861 - Gloucestershire, England xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Transcription
Frederick Bisp Son Single Male 11 1870 - Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Alis Bisp Daughter Single Female 5 1876 - Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Bertha Bisp Grand Daughter Single Female 0 1881 - Gloucestershire, England xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

????

Marriages Sep 1882 (>99%)
Bish Elizabeth Barton Regis 6a 309
Bisp Elizabeth Barton Regis 6a 309
RICKS Charles William Barton R. 6a 309
Simmonds Sarah Barton R. 6a 309
Smart Alfred William Barton R. 6a 309

Fabulous information !! Thank you all so much!!

Will research and record in the morning.

Hoping to then find something on 1939 ! I don't seem to be having much luck searching that though and getting results!

Thanks agai????

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Winterbourne Hill Near Bristol, Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
Albert Smart Husband Married Male Miner Hewer 52 1859 Glos Winterbourne
Transcription
Elizabeth Smart Wife Married Female - 48 1863 Glos Winterbourne
Transcription
Hannah Smart Daughter Single Female Tailore'ss 24 1887 Glos Winterbourne
Transcription
Alice Smart Daughter Single Female Tailore'ss 18 1893 Glos Winterbourne
Transcription
Hilda Smart Daughter Single Female - 13 1898 Glos Winterbourne

Florence H 1915 and Harold L 1917 born in Wales - Pontypridd RD

England & Wales births 1837-2006 Transcription

First name(s) FLORENCE H
Last name BOWEN
Birth year 1915
Birth quarter 3
Registration month -
Mother's last name Smart
District Pontypridd
County Glamorganshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A
Page 1214

---------------------------------
England & Wales births 1837-2006 Transcription

First name(s) HAROLD L
Last name BOWEN
Birth year 1917
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's last name Smart
District Pontypridd
County Glamorganshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A
Page 1098

????

SMART, HANNAH BLISS Order
GRO Reference: 1886 S Quarter in BARTON REGIS Volume 06A Page 182

this could be bertha

Name
Bertha Smart
Event Type
Census
Event Date
31 Mar 1901
Event Place
Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
County
Gloucestershire
Civil Parish
Winterbourne
Ecclesiastical Parish
Winterbourne St Michael
Sub-District
Winterbourne
Registration District
Barton Regis
Residence Note
Winterbourne
Gender
Female
Age
20
Occupation
Tailoress
Relationship to Head of Household
Visitor
Birth Year (Estimated)
1881
Birthplace
Winterbourne, Gloucestershire
Schedule Type
93
Page Number
15
Household
Role
Sex
Age
Birthplace
Hannah Bisp
Head
F
66
Winterbourne, Gloucestershire
Edward Bisp
Son
M
25
Winterbourne, Gloucestershire
Bertha Smart
Visitor
F
20
Winterbourne, Gloucestershire

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Winterbourne Hill, Winterbourne, Barton Regis, Gloucestershire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Elizabeth Smart Wife Married Female 28 1863 Tailoress Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Berth Smart Daughter - Female 10 1881 Scholar Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Florence Smart Daughter - Female 8 1883 Scholar Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Esther Smart Daughter - Female 6 1885 Scholar Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Hannah Smart Daughter - Female 5 1886 Scholar Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Lilley Smart - - Female 2 1889 - Winterbourne, Gloucestershire, England