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Ahh- here she is (and in the correct area for that Henry Walker birth):

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
4, Northumberland Street, St Marylebone, Marylebone, London, England

Henry Lippiatt Head Married Male 27 1854 Mason Almondbury, Gloucestershire,
Amelia Lippiatt Wife Married Female 27 1854 - Bristol, Gloucestershire,
Elizabeth Lippiatt Daughter Single Female 0 1881 - St Pancras, Middlesex,
Caroline Hutchisen Niece Single Female 20 1861 Domestic Servant Bristol, Gloucestershire

There's a Richard Walker and his wife at the same address too.

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
4, Northumberland Street, St Marylebone, Marylebone, London,

Richard Walker Head Married Male 52 1829 Engine Driver Newport, Shropshire, England
Alice Walker Wife Married Female 39 1842 - Banbury, Oxfordshire, England

Good morning Austin Q. Am not long up having had a bad night and now have to go out. I will digest all your new information upon my return which will be around 6pm tonight. I do appreciate all the time and effort you've put in to this quest. I just didn't want you to think that I'm not replying. Will speak later so to speak. I now don't want to go out but unfortunately have to. I'd rather stay in and look at all the new information and digest the same. Again, I appreciate all the time and effort you've put in.

Kind regards

Kathryn

Not a problem Kathryn- take your time, there's quite a bit to get your head around.

Don't rush to reply when you get in- just take a look whenever you can. I'm enjoying the challenge of trying to sort it all out!

Trying to work out how Caroline is a niece. Amelia's maiden name appears to have been Hanks judging by the birth of Elizabeth.

Edith and Annie are granddaughters in 1911, mmn Best. In 1901 there is also Ada - all three shown as daughters but mmn Best

Amelia seems to vary to Annie (in 1901 and 1891)

In 1911 they say they have been married 25 years yet the were together in 1881 - married in 22 April 1878 in Holy Trinity Clifton. He is Henry Morgan Lippiatt - father George. Her father Jeremiah

Jude

Caroline's Mum was a Hanks by the looks of it Jude:

Marriages Sep 1854
Cole Mary Ann Clifton 6a 220
Hanks Caroline Clifton 6a 220
HUTCHINSON Robert Clifton 6a
Wookey John Clifton 6a 220
----------------------------

Caroline's birth:

HUTCHINSON, CAROLINE mmn: HANKS
GRO Reference: 1860 D Quarter in CLIFTON Volume 06A Page 57

Father Jeremiah:

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
6, South Green Street, Clifton, Gloucestershire, England

Jeremiah Hanks Head Married Male 39 1812 Dress Maker Winterbourne, Gloucestershire,
Emma Hanks Wife Married Female 39 1812 - Gloucestershire, England
Caroline Hanks Daughter - Female 16 1835 Maid Of Allwork Bristol, St Philip, Gloucestershire,
George Hanks Son - Male 11 1840 Quarryman Winterbourne, Gloucestershire,
Jeremiah Hanks Son - Male 9 1842 At Home Winterbourne, Gloucestershire,
Ellen Hanks Daughter - Female 7 1844 At Home Winterbourne, Gloucestershire,
James Hanks Son - Male 4 1847 At Home Winterbourne, Gloucestershire,
Mary A Hanks Daughter - Female 0 1851 - Clifton, Gloucestershire,

Jude- I don't think Annie is the same person as Amelia.

Different age and place of birth in 1911:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
38 Grayshott Road Lavender Hill SW, Battersea, London, England

Henry Lippiatt Head Married Male Bricklayer 57 1854 Almondsbury Glos
Annie Lippiatt Wife Married Female - 50 1861 Brixton London
Edith Lippiatt Daughter Single Female Domestic 24 1887 Dulwich London
Annie Lippiatt Daughter Single Female Book Keeper 19 1892 Hanwell Middlesex

Amelia died in 1883:
Death:
First name(s) AMELIA
Last name LIPPIATT
Gender Female
Birth year 1854
Age 29
Death quarter 2
Death year 1883
District Barton Regis
County Gloucestershire
Volume 6A Page 39
-----------------------------------

And then Henry remarried to Annie in 1885:

First name(s) Henry Morgan
Last name Lippiatt
Age 31
Marriage year 1885
Marriage date 02 Aug 1885
Marriage place Newington
Father's first name(s) George
Father's last name Lippiatt
Spouse's first name(s) Annie Mary
Spouse's last name Best
Spouse's birth year 1861
Spouse's birth date 1861
Spouse's father's first name(s) Isaac
Spouse's father's last name Best
Residence Newington, Surrey, England

Have to go out soon but in the meanwhile, this could explain the 'niece' connection:

Marriages Sep 1854 (>99%) ?????????
Cole Mary Ann Clifton 6a 220 Scan available - click to view
Hanks Caroline Clifton 6a 220 Scan available - click to view *****
HUTCHINSON Robert Clifton 6a 220 Scan available - click to view *****
Wookey John Clifton 6a 220 Scan available - click to view



1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription ....... Image says HANKS !!!
2, Chaple Row, Clifton, Gloucestershire, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Frederick Honkins Head Married Male 48 1813 Day Labourer - (Jeremiah ??)
Transcription
Genevra Honkins Wife Married Female 49 1812 - - (Gemma???)
Transcription
Ellen Honkins Daughter - Female 16 1845 - -
Transcription
John Honkins Son - Male 13 1848 Scholar -
Transcription
Mary A Honkins Daughter - Female 11 1850 Scholar -
Transcription
Amelia Honkins Daughter - Female 8 1853 Scholar - *******


Same address:

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
2, Chaple Row, Clifton, Gloucestershire, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Robert Hutchinson Head Married Male 28 1833 Seaman Scotland
Transcription
Caroline Hutchinson Wife Married Female 25 1836 - -
Transcription
Robert Hutchinson Son - Male 5 1856 Scholar -
Transcription
Charles Hutchinson Son - Male 3 1858 Scholar -
Transcription
Caroline Hutchinson Daughter - Female 7 1854 - - *****

SO... If Amelia is the sister of Caroline born 1836 (and she is the daughter of Jeremiah + Gemma??), then Caroline born 1854 is the daughter of her sister Caroline who married Robert Hutchinson, and therefore this would be the niece connection?

Dea x

EDIT - Oh Sugar !!!!! - Austin has already posted this while I was working it all out.
Never mind, it looks like we both agree. ;-)

Dea x

Great minds Dea :-D

Can anyone find anything further on this Richard Walker that was at the same address as the Lippiatts

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
4, Northumberland Street, St Marylebone, Marylebone, London,

Richard Walker Head Married Male 52 1829 Engine Driver Newport, Shropshire, England
Alice Walker Wife Married Female 39 1842 - Banbury, Oxfordshire, England

Just posting this so I don't lose it (no idea if connected or not yet):

Name: Henry Walker
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 27 Aug 1882
Born Aug 5th
Father's name: Henry Walker (Butcher)
Mother's name: Caroline Walker
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Marylebone St Luke
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Registers
Abode: 25 Molyneux Street

That baptism fits in nicely with the birth :-)

And so Amelia was Elizabeth's mother and the other three were Annie's children.

So let's see if we can find Henry Snr (or maybe he was a figment)!! However, the very fact that Henry Jnr was baptised, would possibly suggest not. It's one thing making up a father on the birth certificate and often that was not allowed anyway, but most of the illegitimate children I have seen baptised, the father is not named.

Jude

Well here's one Henry a retired butcher...but I'd like to think he's a bot old :-)!!

Name: Henry Walker
Age: 66
Estimated birth year: abt 1815
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Mary A. Walker
Gender: Male
Where born: Thames Ditton, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Camberwell
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 15 South Grove
Marital Status: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Retired Butcher
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 680
Folio: 48
Page Number: 30

Ah here's a better one...he's single ..but Hampstead's not really ner Marylebone

Name: Henry Walker
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Gender: Male
Where born: Guildford, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: St John Hampton
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 17 High St
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Butcher
Registration district: Hampstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 168
Folio: 71
Page Number: 27

It's a needle in a haystack!

I was really hoping the Richard Walker at the same address as Caroline in 1881 was a relative of Henry Walker the butcher.

But as I can find zilch on Richard and wife Alice, I'm getting nowhere :-(

If Henry existed why didn't he marry Caroline? Did he panic and do a runner, or perhaps he was already married? Also wondered if butcher was enhancing his status?

Ditto AQ!! I couldn't find Richard after that 1881...

Jude

Jude- it is frustrating. I've got friends over for dinner later and I'm searching in between peeling veg.

Just for info as I'm not sure it was covered earlier- when Caroline Hutchinson marries Frederick Liles in 1885 her address is Belvedere Road, Lambeth. There is a Hutchinson family running the Green Dragon public house on Belvedere Road, but I don't see any connection.

AQ - enjoy! Did my entertaining yesterday....turkey and leg of lamb! And ten veg (lovingly peeled by your's truly):-)

Jude

Good evening all. Have now read all your posts but it will take time to digest all the new information. I am overwhelmed at the work that has gone into my original post and can't thank you all enough, especially AustinQ. Am not back at work until Wednesday (I have an extra day off tomorrow) so I will spend sometime then trying to take it all in and filling in the new info on my Tree.

Am probably jumping the gun here until I have digested all but am I right in thinking that Henry who married Lilian is the same Henry who died in France?


I'll be back on here tomorrow. During the week then I work I don't usually have time to research so undertake the same mainly at weekends and when I'm on leave.

Again, your time and help is very much appreciated.

Kind regards

Kathryn

Wow Jude- sounds a bit posher nosh than my dinner!

Kathryn- in short, Yes. The Henry Walker that married Lilian Nicholson in 1905 was the Henry Walker Liles that died 1917. We know it is the correct marriage as Lilian's sister (Elsie Hall, nee Nicholson) was living with Lilian in 1939.

Henry Walker took on the Liles surname when his mother, Caroline Hutchinson, married Frederick Cooper Liles.

It is likely that this is Henry's birth- although you would need the birth certificate to confirm mother was Caroline (although the possible baptism suggests it is correct) :
WALKER, HENRY (Mother's maiden name: HUTCHINSON )
GRO Reference: 1882 S Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01A Page 587

It is likely that Henry's father was Henry Walker- but at the moment we are struggling to confirm the correct man.

I know there's quite a bit of jumbled information in the post- If there's anything that's not clear please just ask. Enjoy your day off

:-)