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Yes, I think I will order the Gosport death certificate ArgyllGran. It might leave me none the wiser but I might find a clue on it somewhere.

Perhaps he wanted his name to sound less foreign during the war??
Who knows?!

I think you're just going to have to buy the Gosport death cert, and hopefully that would be one less mystery.

I am sure you are right Erika. I didn’t really think there was anything “dodgy” about it. I am just intrigued as to why he changed both his forenames. I do now know that he went by the name of Frederick Albert Martin as I have found him in a Liverpool ER for 1920. I am confident that it is him because he is living next to his in-laws.

It’s the stories behind our ancestors actions that I find intriguing and this one is eluding me. Was there a family feud that made him apparently strike out on his own and was that the reason for the name change? I’ll probably never know.

I think the word ‘alias’ in this context actually means AKA……….nothing sinister

I know this is an old thread but once or twice a year I go back over brick walls and thought that those who helped before might be interested in a small breakthrough I made yesterday. It might also encourage others with brick walls to keep on researching.

By chance yesterday I came across a tree on Ancestry that had Ferdinand Alexander Martin married to a Beatrice Portman but gave no source. I was dubious about this as there were other things on the tree that weren’t correct so I started doing some checking.

I could find no trace of a marriage between Ferdinand and this Beatrice Portman anywhere so goodness knows where the tree owner got it from. However, while searching I stumbled upon a real marriage for him. It was a Roman Catholic ceremony in Liverpool in 1917 (The Martin family were R.C.) The bride was Isabella Rosa Finlay. He still gives his address as Sheffield where he was in 1911. The odd thing is that under his name is written "alias Frederick...). The name looks like the latinised version of Frederick Alfred but it’s not very clear and I am wondering if it could be Frederick Augustus, which was the name of his older brother who died aged 19 in 1903. The civil registration of the marriage is in the name of Frederick Martin.

Next step was to check the 1939 Register again. His wife Isabella and 3 daughters are there, still in Liverpool, and wife's status is given as married not widowed, but where is Ferdinand? I can't think that he is in the armed services as he would be about 51. Is he on the 1939 as Frederick? There are loads of possibles in that case though I haven't yet found one with his birth date.

So after a few years I've moved Ferdinand on from last sighting 1911 to last definite sighting 1917 and he was probably around till at least 1928 when the last of the daughters was born, assuming the 3 girls with his wife in 1939 are his children. They are all registered as Martin with mmn Finlay.

As always every answer raises more questions. Why did he apparently split from his family in Southwark? Why did he need an alias or did he just dislike the name Ferdinand? If his marriage is registered as Frederick what is the name on his death registration? The Gosport death mentioned earlier in this thread still seems the most likely but if his death is registered as Frederick Martin I need to look again.

Yes, sadly Lilian Augusta died very young. As far as I am aware Francis Martin and his wife had six children and she was the eldest. The others all lived to adulthood, though one of them, Frederick, may have died at around age 20. There is a death in Southwark in 1903 which could be him but Frederick and Martin are both such common names that it is hard to be sure without sending for dozens of certificates.

This is my OH's family and I don't know why I am complaining about the common names. My grandmother and all that side of my family were called Smith!

I see the daughter lilian augusta died

Deaths Mar 1885   
MARTIN
 Lilian Augusta
 5
 St Olave
 1d
184

Malyon - just for interest and to confirm that he is there:

In the 1891 census Ferdinand is with his family at 424 Hanover Buildings, Horsleydown, Rotherhithe (RG12/369).

In the 1901 he is at 428 Munton Road, Newington, again with parents and siblings (RG13/373)

By the 1911 census Eliza, his mother, has died. Ferdinand is not with his widowed father so I am fairly confident the one in Sheffield is him.

I don't think we mentioned Bermondsey or Lambeth did we? I just said Ferdinand was born in Southwark. Bermondsey is part of the Borough of Southwark.

Please don't spend time looking up his ancestors. I am grateful for the interest but I don't want to waste your time. I have the Martin ancestors back to the 1600s in Germany and Eliza Mackintosh's family back a couple of generations to Ireland.

Ferdy is definitely in the 1891 and the 1901 with his parents. I can't get to the computer at the moment to look at the details on my tree but I will tell you where he is when I can get back to it. At the moment I am just on an iPad.

Thanks for taking an interest. Other pairs of eyes always help :-D

parents marriage

Marriages Jun 1878   (>99%)

Martin
 Francis Joseph
 
 St. Saviour
 1d
290
  
McINTOSH
 Eliza
 
 St. Saviour
 1d
290

he's birth was st olave that is the Bermondsey area not Lambeth


Mother's Maiden Surname: 
 
MARTIN, FERDINAND  ALEXANDER  
MCINTOSH  

GRO Reference: 1888  D Quarter in SAINT OLAVE SOUTHWARK  Volume 01D  Page 274

I can't see him in the 1891 or 1901 census

The military record could be him but F Martin is such a common name that it's not possible to say without more detail such as full name, or next of kin etc.

I have to go out shortly but will look back later.

Thank you for your efforts everyone

Hi Malyon

I think you have got the right one but the name has been mistranscribed. Ancestry transcribes it as Alezander and the image does look like that. I know it shows him as a couple of years older than he was but that's not unusual.

could this be him


F Martin
United Kingdom, World War I Service Records
Name
F Martin
Event Type
Military Service
Event Year
1917
Military Company/Regiment
Royal Garrison Artillery
Military Regiment
145316
Military Battalion
48th Service Battery

The original of that 1911 is spelt Alezandra - an as it sounds spelling of Alexander I imagine by the head of the house

Thanks greyghost. I think you are probably right. There is a Ferdinand Martin that appears in the London electoral registers for many years, including 1911/12. My man was in Sheffield then and the one whose birth you have found would still have been a child so Ferdinand Martin appears to be a fairly common name.

this is the 1911 census you mentioned above it is not your Ferdinard unless the middle name is wrong

England and Wales Census, 1911
Name
Ferdinard Alegan Martin
Event Type
Census
Event Date
1911
County
Yorkshire (West Riding)
Parish
Sheffield
Sub-District
Hillsborough
Registration District
Sheffield
Gender
Male
Age
25
Birthplace
London, London
Record Type
Household

This birth would probably match your 1923 marriage

MARTIN FERDINAND JOSEPH A 1900 Wandsworth, London, England

EDIT - AS Kath says, Gosport is a Military Place. There were Army barracks a plenty and of course Gosport is on the other side of Portsmouth harbour so is well occupied by Naval Personnel still.

Thank you too Kathleen

Thanks for looking, rootgatherer. It looks as though he could have died before 1939 though I haven't found a likely death or burial record as early as that.

He is a most elusive man. He would still have been young enough to serve in WW1 but I haven't found any service records for him, though the services may not have wanted him as his father was German.

I'll just have to keep on looking.