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Re Mary Cooper -

this may be her death - the cert would give husband's name, if you wanted to find out who she was:


Mary Cooper
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name:Mary Cooper
Birth Date:8 Jul 1889
Date of Registration:Mar 1971
Age at Death:81
Registration district:Ormskirk
Inferred County:Lancashire
Volume:10f
Page: 518

It has Arrived the Birth Cert :Frank Cooper,
born 25/04/1913 ...6 Grove Street Southport.
Father : Joseph Cooper - Railway Fitter
Mother: Mary Cooper formerly Valentine

Birth in sub district of Formby...Registration District Ormskirk on the 12th June 1913. :-)

Had a look round but nothing, thought Valentine would be easier to find but nothing as yet on with parents. :-S

A possible for Mary Valentine

Mary Ann Valentine - Sep Q 1889 Dover 2a 963 -- you would need birth cert.
to find out if birth date matches.

1891 Dover

Charles Valentine 36y Lab. Dover
Mary A Valentine 35y Dover
Annie E Valentine 11y Dover
Charles Valentine 8y Dover
Harry Valentine 5y Dover
Mary A Valentine 1 y Dover

don't seem to be a baptism for Mary Ann Valentine 1889

1901 Dover

Charles Valentine 46y wd Dover
Harry Valentine 16y Dover
Mary Valentine 12y Dover
William Valentine 9y Dover

1911Dover
Charles Valentine 56y Dover
Stephen Valentine 16y Dover

unable to find Mary 1911 don't think she died she may have married ????

Mavis

Thank you Mavis, Could not find a marriage for her and Joseph, she may have married before him, so need to check all Mary V...she would be round 22 in 1911...so she could have married at a push around 1906.....then married Joe Cooper, looks like first born was Louisa 1911 then Frank 1913...x

could be they never married
found this death

Deaths Dec 1972   (>99%)

Valentine
 Mary Ann
 14No1889
 Barton

there is a chance he may have been married even Mary may have been married
they could well just have lived together -- Mary was a young woman and would more than likely had more children --- if Joseph was a married man he may well have gone back to his wife after the birth of the 2 children or may have disappeared

Mary is stated with still married in 1939 but no death of a Joseph Cooper in Ormskirk area after that date till Frank married and said he was deceased

also as a thought perhaps Mary invented a husband -- not unknown

who actually reg. the birth Mary or Joseph


Mavis

Will it tell me that on the cert who registered Franks Birth ? just looking at it says signature of informant Joseph Cooper, remember they had a daughter before Frank.x

ps...but you maybe right and they never married, maybe follow Louisa'a line and see if anyone alive who knows the story, just a thought. x

yes that's it Joseph reg the birth -- he was alive and kicking then.

wonder if he worked on the railway 1911 census

Mavis

could joseph cooper have been in the army and killed in the war

1939 index has Mary Cooper as married not Wd

wonder if the Louisa Cooper birth cert would be of use for the address
as that's fairly close to 1911 census

Mavis

Getting the birth cert has not really made it easier, I wonder if the electoral rolls for the Southport address would help, will have to find out were these are held and go have a look. Have looked at Franks sister Louise and her hubby W.E Steele and maybe could find someone looking at her line, i have sent 17 requests on gene's to see if i may find some info....Joseph being killed in war is a possibility as long as he died after 1939 list taken...will keep looking, thank you Folks for your kind help.x ;-)

ps will be checking a couple of times a day to see if anyone has found a gem, will be digging round and put any leads i find too...x :-D

Nothing as yet seemed to have hit a brick wall...x :-S

Just a though Joanie,

On Frank's birth cert - is it an actual photocopy of the cert or is it a re-written one you have received - i.e. is Joseph's signature his 'actual' signature or is it transcribed.

If it is the actual signature it could perhaps be compared with the signatures of all the Joseph Coopers on the 1911 register and maybe a match could be found??

Dea x

The address on the birth cert is 6 Grove Street- this is who was there is 1911-: (can't see any obvious connection- Harriet nee Walton)

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
6 Grove St Birkdale, Southport, Lancashire, England

Alexander Spencer Head Married Male Labourer Bricksetters 29 1882 India Madnas
Harriet Spencer Wife Married Female House Worker 25 1886 Cheshire Altrincham
George Alexander Spencer Son - Male - 1 1910 Lancs Southport
George Bishop Smith Boarder Widower Male Teacher Of Music 49 1862 Lancs Southport
----------------------------------------------

Can't see anything obvious in the papers either- only thing was a report in July 1910 of a Joseph Cooper (native of Italy) described as an organ grinder and icecream vendor who was sentenced at Liverpool to 5 months imprisonment for stabbing someone in Southport.

Looking at the the census I think he was actually Joseph Ambrose (married man born 1880).
-----------------------------------------

Do you have Louisa's birth certificate too?

The cert is re-written it is same handwriting Dea, i have had no luck as yet with contacting all the Mary Valentine's, over half have replied.

No AustinQ i don't have Louisa's birth cert, only just got Franks, the report in the papers looks interesting though.

Thank you for the 1911 census.

Joanie x

If you know the address it's relatively easy to search the electoral rolls....but if not it's a nightmare

Jude

6 GROVE ST SOUTHPORT...Was on 1913 birthcert were they there before and after please plus 6 HEYBURN ROAD TUEBROOK LIVERPOOL WAS ON 1939 Register ...with just Frank and a Mary Cooper.

was Joseph on any of these rolls please....Joanie x

I don't believe they are online - you will have to go to the library and manually search; that's why I said it could be a nightmare to search.

Jude

(posted by AustinQ on 5th January at 08.09 -

"Can't see anything obvious in the papers either- only thing was a report in July 1910 of a Joseph Cooper (native of Italy) described as an organ grinder and icecream vendor who was sentenced at Liverpool to 5 months imprisonment for stabbing someone in Southport"


Could this be Joseph Cooper otherwise Azzoli Guisseppo?


England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935

Piece number 281

Series HO140

Source A Calendar Of Prisoners Tried At The Assizes For The Year 1910

>>>>>>First name(s) Joseph Or Azzoli

>>>>>>Last name Cooper Or Guisseppo

Year 1910

Birth year 1888

Occupation Baker

County Lancaster

Place -

Court Liverpool

Age 22

Date 18 Jul 1910

Category Institutions & organisations

Subcategory Prison registers

Collections from Great Britain

found this

Britain ,Trade Union membership registers transcription

Joseph Cooper - birth year 1887 - admission year 1913 - age 26
Occupation/grade Labourer - Trade Railway Workers -
Union name - National Union of Railwaymen - Union branch Southport Lancashire -
Archive Modern Records Centre - Archive ref. MSS.127/NU/OR/2/28 -
Folio or page 68 - Title General Register - Date Apr-May 1913

no saying your Joseph Cooper

Mavis