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ArgyllGran
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8 Oct 2016 21:40 |
Probably the death of Patrick Russell who appears on 1911 census:
Patrick Russell in the Ireland, Civil Registration Deaths Index, 1864-1958 Name: Patrick Russell Estimated birth year: abt 1905 Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1938 Death Age: 33 Registration district: Clogheen Volume: 4 Page: 283 FHL Film Number: 101741
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Eringobragh1916
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9 Oct 2016 00:06 |
Re Baptism of Patrick 1842 posted by Maddie (8th Oct.16.10) mothers surname should read Johanna POWER.....see son John's Baptism May1828 in Church Register
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safc
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9 Oct 2016 00:24 |
????
i think ellen caprice and ellen fitzgerald born 1899 are the same person if you have a daughter called ellen caprice born 1886 ? you will not call another daughter ellen caprice unless she died i cant find a death for ellen caprice i would buy the birth cert for ellen caprice born 1899 mind abby could be wrong
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Eringobragh1916
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9 Oct 2016 00:43 |
Natasha.. What was Richards address on the MC.? .Whereabouts in the Co.Tipp did they live after their marriage.
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AustinQ
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9 Oct 2016 06:51 |
The marriage certificate of Ellen and Richard is on https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
Address on marriage for Richard looks like Rathnareen/ Rathnaveen- father Andrew Ryan, Farmer.
I suspect this is him in 1911:
Residents of a house 5 in Rathneaveen (Ryan) (Solloghodbeg, Tipperary)
Ryan John 48 Male Head of Family R Catholic Co Tipperary Farmer Ryan Ellen 40 Female Wife R Catholic Co Tipperary Farmer Married - 19 years Ryan Richard 15 Male Servant Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Farm Servant Single -----------------------------------
This is his baptism:
Catholic Birth and Baptism Registers, 1763-1912 Name: Richard Ryan Baptism Date: 29 Aug 1896 Baptism Place: Annacarty, Tipperary, Ireland Father: Andrew Ryan Mother: Mary Quinlan Abode: Furnaclara?
Godparents: Richard Quinlan & Alice Ryan
There is a helpful note on the baptism (obviously added later) that says 'married in Tipperary 13th April 1921 to Ellen Caplice' ----------------------------------------------
Going by the address, I think this is Richard in 1901:
Residents of a house 5 in Farranaclara (Kilmucklin, Tipperary)
Ryan Andrew 30 Male Head of Family R Catholic Co Tipperary Boot and Shoe Maker Married - Ryan Mary 28 Female Wife R Catholic Co Tipperary - Married - Ryan Mary 9 Female Daughter R Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Ryan Michael 7 Male Son R Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Ryan Bridget 6 Female Daughter R Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Ryan Ellen 4 Female Daughter R Catholic Co Tipperary - Ryan Richard 3 Male Son R Catholic Co Tipperary - Ryan Margaret Female Daughter R Catholic Co Tipperary -
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Eringobragh1916
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9 Oct 2016 09:13 |
Morning AustinQ...That's the 1901 I looked at and the 1911 has Andrew remarried and all the children from 1901 have been dispersed to who knows where the only children from his first marriage b after 1901 are Alice Annie and Katie..Thomas id from his marriage to Mary A.
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Mary
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9 Oct 2016 09:18 |
But the 2 Ellen's were both at the same address in 1901 with Patrick and Margaret.
There is this Ellen Caplice born @ 1885 Ireland left Queenstown on the ship Cretic arrived Boston USA 28/5/1904.I can't make out the address.
Ellen who married Richard had her last child 1942 making her 56 if she was the one born 1886!
Is it deffinately the one who is the daughter of Patrick and Margaret nee Greene or another Patrick.
Maryb
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AustinQ
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9 Oct 2016 09:57 |
Mary, you're not the only one struggling with this!
I suspect that Ellen (Fitzgerald) was perhaps a foster daughter or like, and had been with the Caplice family from a very early age, and took on the surname??
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AustinQ
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9 Oct 2016 10:19 |
I'm not convinced of the death of Patrick Russell that was posted above. What if all the children took on the Caplice name?
Bear in mind that in 1911 the family were living house 9 in Gorteeshal (Ballyporeen, Tipperary)
This is a John Caplice- travelling to Canada- he was born Ballyporeen, and gives his nearest relative as BROTHER, James Caplice, Gurteshal, Ballyporeen
Name: John Caplice Gender: Male Age: 23 Birth Year: abt 1905 Birth Country: Ireland Date of Arrival: 12 Apr 1928 Vessel: Marloch Port of Arrival: St John, New Brunswick, Canada Port of Departure: Cobh, Ireland ---------------------------------------------
And then there is this Patrick Caplice, born in Ballyporeen, travellingg to Canada to his Brother, John Caplice in Toronto, Ont. His nearest relative is given as UNCLE James Caplice, Gurteshal, Ballyporeen
Name: Patrick Caplice Gender: Male Age: 24 Birth Year: abt 1905 Birth Country: Ireland Date of Arrival: 16 Jun 1929 Vessel: Aurania Port of Arrival: Quebec, Canada Port of Departure: Cobh, Ireland
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AustinQ
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9 Oct 2016 10:55 |
1901 had daughter Mary living with the family- there's these births (which tie in with the John Dunlea and Patrick Russell that appear on the 1911 census:
Name JOHN CAPLICE Date of Birth 21 September 1902 Group Registration ID 7152555 SR District/Reg Area Clogheen Sex Male Mother's Birth Surname CAPLICE
Mother: Mary Caplice of Gurtheshal, Registered by Margaret Caplice of Gurtheshal -------------------------------------------------
Name PATRICK CAPLICE Date of Birth 18 January 1905 (originally April 3rd- statutory disclaimer filed) Group Registration ID 416245 SR District/Reg Area Clogheen Sex Male Mother's Birth Surname CAPLICE
Mother: Mary Caplice of Gurtheshal -----------------------------------------------------
Name DANIEL CAPLICE (died at 2 months old in the workhouse) Date of Birth 20 January 1908 Group Registration ID 555984 SR District/Reg Area Clogheen Sex Female Mother's Birth Surname CAPLICE
Mother Mary Caplice of Clogheen Workhouse
Unsure if Daniel is of the same Mary, as Mary may have died in 1906- but will leave just in case. ------------------------------------------------------
And death of James:
Name JAMES CAPLICE Year of Death 1965 Group Registration ID 2785692 SR District/Reg Area Clogheen Deceased Age at Death 85
Small farmer of Gurteshal, Ballyporeen
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AustinQ
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9 Oct 2016 11:03 |
Margaret's death:
Name Margaret Caplice Year of Death 1932 Group Registration ID 1450531 SR District/Reg Area Clogheen Deceased Age at Death 82
Widow of Farmer of Gurtishall Informant: John Caplice, son --------------------------------------
Patrick's death:
Name PATRICK CAPLICE Year of Death 1918 Group Registration ID 5642857 SR District/Reg Area Clogheen Deceased Age at Death 71
married farmer of Gurtheshall. Informant: John Caplice, son
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AustinQ
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9 Oct 2016 11:09 |
So perhaps Mary was the mother of all the children:
Name ELLEN CAPLICE Date of Birth 29 March 1899 Group Registration ID 10493686 SR District/Reg Area Clogheen Sex N/R Born Glennacunna? Mother: Mary Caplice
Perhaps the family gave them the surnames of the fathers?
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Mary
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9 Oct 2016 11:15 |
Think you have a result AustinQ
No sign of Mary 1875 after the birth of Daniel 1908?
Maryb.
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AustinQ
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9 Oct 2016 11:29 |
I wasn't sure about the birth of Daniel
There is this death, but the age is a little out (approx birth 1878)
Name MARY CAPLICE Year of Death 1906 (June 20th) Group Registration ID 4863268 SR District/Reg Area Clogheen Deceased Age at Death 28
Servant of Ballyporeen. Informant: Ellen Caplice, Ballyporeen, present at death
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AustinQ
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9 Oct 2016 11:38 |
This is Mary's birth- note the address is the same for Ellen's birth:
Name MARY CAPLICE Date of Birth 1875 (5th December) Group Registration ID 8626440 SR District/Reg Area Clogheen Father: Patrick Caplice (farmer) Mother: Margaret Caplice (formerly Green) Address: Glenacunna
So I'm confident that Mary was the unwed mother of Ellen Caplice b.1899.
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Eringobragh1916
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9 Oct 2016 12:13 |
I think what has happened is when filling out the 1911 Census under How many children and how many living ? This may have been interpreted as Living at Home...I have seen that before....
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AustinQ
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9 Oct 2016 14:23 |
Sorry Eringobragh if you read this a moment ago- edited this post as I found the extra birth.
These are the (5) children that are supposedly theirs on the 1901 census:
Mary Caplice Daughter Single 25 1876 Tipperary Margaret Caplice Daughter Single 23 1878 Tipperary James Caplice Son Single 19 1882 Tipperary Ellen Caplice Daughter Single 15 1886 Tipperary John Caplice Son Single 6 1895 Tipperary
Seems some confusion on names (two Margarets- think one is Ellen, but definitely listed on the civil records as Margaret!!)
1. Name MARY CAPLICE Date of Birth 1875 (5th December) Group Registration ID 8626440 SR District/Reg Area Clogheen Father: Patrick Caplice (farmer) Mother: Margaret Caplice (formerly Green) Address: Glenacunna
Name MARGARET CAPLICE Date of Birth 1877 Group Registration ID 10631540 SR District/Reg Area Clogheen Sex N/R Father: Patrick Mother: Margaret (formerly Green) Address: Gurtishal
2. Name JAMES CAPLICE Date of Birth 1882 Group Registration ID 10902036 SR District/Reg Area Clogheen Sex N/R Father: Patrick (labourer) Mother (formerly Green) Address: Gurtishal
3. Name MARGARET CAPLICE Date of Birth 1885 Group Registration ID 10572652 SR District/Reg Area Clogheen Sex N/R Father: Patrick (Labourer) Mother: Margaret (Formerly Green) Born: Gurteshal
4. Name JOHN CAPLICE Date of Birth 1894 Group Registration ID 11441708 SR District/Reg Area Clogheen Sex N/R Father: Patrick (farmer) Mother: Margaret (formerly Green) Address: Gurthesal
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