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Jane Hay/ Jane Dale
As both deaths show the same ref number, this is the same person

DALE
JANE
46
1883
282/4 726 **
St Andrew (Dundee)

HAY
JANE
46
1883
282/4 726 **
St Andrew (Dundee)

Chris .Looked at that one will have another check.....I wonder if Christopher has managed to find anything on Scotlands People....

Big gap between marriage and then first child 10yrs later....

(below comes up on google search, if any help!)

Chris :)

http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/p/o/k/Dale-M-Pokorski/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0025.html

(William Dale was born Abt. 1823 in Co. Monaghan, Ireland, and died 1889.
Marriage: Martha Henderson, 09 Aug 1845, Clontibret, County Monaghan, Ireland.

Christopher...You may be interested to know (unless you already do !) Along with Joseph Dale (Jane's brother ) there was also a William Dale b Ireland and married to Martha Henderson b Ireland living 266 Hilltown Dundee 1861
1871 They are living in Church St.
1881 They are living 43 Hospital Wynd.****
I suspect he may be Janes brother but cannot locate the marriage in Ireland so far....

(relating)

Chris :)

27 October 1899 - Dundee Advertiser - Dundee, Angus, Scotland

A MISSING DUNDEE MAN.
One of the men reported missing from the ranks of the 2nd Gordons after the bloody fight at Elandslaagte was Private Robert Dale, a native of Dundee. Inquiries in the city go to show that this Robert Dale is a lad whose real name is Robert Hay, and whose parents both belonged to the town. Mrs Hay is dead, but the father is still alive and lives with his two daughters at 43, Hospital Wynd. Robert is 24 years of age, he enlisted in the Gordons at Aberdeen about six years ago, under his mother's maiden name of Dale, and after being stationed at several home centres, he was transferred with his regiment to India fully 12 months ago.
The news that he was missing after the conflict has caused feelings of anxiety to his relatives. When in Dundee, Hay worked for a time in a factory, and subsequently was employed in one of the shipbuilding yards. He is spoken of by those who knew him as a quiet well behaved lad.

It may be interesting to state that Mrs. Stewart, the sister of the dead Dundee James Kelly, is related to the Hay family by marriage.


Below info. found, to go with above.

(James Kelly was 21, son Of James Kelly, Mill Manager,Musselburgh. He enlisted Perth, 1896
His eldest sister, Mrs. Stewart, resides at 5, Parkers Court, Dundee)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Elandslaagte

Anglo-Boer War records 1899-1902 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) R
Last name Hay
Service number 6612
Rank Private
Regiment 2 Battalion The Gordon Highlanders
Rolls WO100/203

http://www.gordonhighlanders.com/history#.V_U73ZXrscA


(following 1891, posted earlier, at 43, Hospital Wynd, below)

1901 (Find My Past)
John Hay Head Married Male 72 1829 Unemployed Perth, Perthshire, Scotland
Martha Hay Daughter Single Female 31 1870 Jute Spinner Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Jane Clements Daughter Married Female 33 1868 Jute Spinner Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Maggie Clements Granddaughter - Female 9 1892 Scholar Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Ruebina Clements Granddaughter - Female 8 1893 Scholar Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
John Clements Grandson - Male 7 1894 Scholar Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
James Clements Grandson - Male 5 1896 - Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Parish Dundee
Country Scotland
County Forfarshire (Angus)
Registration district St Clement
Archive reference RG13

Hello
just to say many thanks for all the people that has helped me get the info i wanted about John & Jane Hay
regards

Chris

safc, I saw the Mary Pitkeathly/Alexander Day marriage and did wonder about it, which is why I think that Christopher needs to get the John Day/Jane Dale marriage info to confirm the parents names.

Scotland Marriages 1561-1910 Transcription
Print transcription
First name(s) Alexander
Last name Hay
Marriage year 1830
Marriage date 12 Mar 1830
Marriage place Perth,Perth,Scotland
Spouse's first name(s) Mary
Spouse's last name Pitkeathly
Place Perth
County Perthshire
Country Scotland
Record set Scotland Marriages 1561-1910
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

Appears the marriage of Joseph and Esther (Tullycorbet) may be the correct family for Jane Dale...

Ester Allen as per 1901 Census Lochee



Esther Jackson Allan

Scotland Births and Baptisms







Name Esther ***Jackson*** Allan
Gender Female
Birth Date 31 Mar 1881
Birthplace Dundee St. Clement, Angus, Scotland
Father's Name Charles Allan
Mother's Name Helen Dale

Scotland Births and Baptisms 1564-1950 Transcription
Print transcription
First name(s) John
Last name Hay
Gender Male
Birth year 1831
Birth place -
Baptism year 1831
Baptism date 20 Mar 1831
Baptism place PERTH,PERTH,SCOTLAND
Father's first name(s) Richard
Father's last name Hay
Mother's first name(s) Mary
Mother's last name Pitcaithley
Place Perth
County Perthshire
Country Scotland
Record set Scotland Births & Baptisms 1564-1950
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Watergate, 39, Perth, Perthshire, Scotland

Learn more
Print transcription
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Catherine Pitkeathly Head Unmarried Female 62 1789 Winder Perth, Perthshire, Scotland
Transcription
John Hay Nephew - Male 20 1831 Weaver Perth, Perthshire, Scotland

John Hay in 1841. As mgnv said, you really need to buy some credits on scotlandspeople to buy some certs:


Name:John Hay
Age:10
Estimated birth year:abt 1831
Gender:Male
Civil Parish:Perth
County:Perthshire
Address:East Side Leonard St
Parish Number:387
Household Members:

John Petkeathly 82
Catherine Petkeathly 40
John Hay 10

ORANGE LODGES IN DUNDEE.

Joseph Dale, 12 Hospital wynd. Secretary

Scottish Post Office Directories > Towns > Dundee
1878-1879

(above if him, from google search)

Chris :)

14 September 1903 - Dundee Evening Post - Dundee, Angus, Scotland

ACCIDENT IN LOCHEE WORKS
Man's Arm Torn Off. An unfortunate accident occurred in Cox's Works, Lochee, this morning, whereby Joseph Dale, an elderly man, had his right arm torn off. Dale, who resides at 31 Union Place, Lochee, was engaged in taking some material out of a machine, when his arm was caught between the rollers. He was dragged towards the machinery, and before it was stopped his arm was torn off. Dale was removed to the Infirmary.


1901 (Find My Past)
Helen Allan Head Widow Female 44 1857 Jute Mill Worker Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Easter Allan Daughter - Female 20 1881 Jute Mill Worker Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Joseph Allan Son - Male 18 1883 Jute Mill Worker Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Joseph Dale Grandfather Widower Male 73 1828 Jute Mill Beamer Ireland
Union Place, 31,
Parish Dundee
Country Scotland
County Forfarshire (Angus)
Registration district St Mary
Archive reference RG13


1871 (Find My Past)
Joseph Dale Head Married Male 40 1831 Power Loom Beamer Ireland
Elsie Dale Wife Married Female 40 1831 - Ireland
Hellen Dale Daughter - Female 14 1857 Power Loom Weaver Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
House name Hospital Wynd
Parish Dundee
County Forfarshire (Angus)
Registration district St Clement
Archive reference RG10


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Orange_Lodge_of_Scotland

Wonder if this is Joseph and Esther....Cannot find another with an "Esther" in Ireland for a rough time frame re 1861 Census..
the couple are also living same area as John Hay... Hilltown



Joseph Dale

mentioned in the record of Joseph Dale and Esther Jackson







Name Joseph Dale
Spouse's Name Esther Jackson
Event Date 20 Oct 1853
Event Place Tullycorbet, Mon, Ire
Father's Name Robert Dale
Spouse's Father's Name William Jackson

FS has these births - they usually don't have much beyond the mid 1870s
Alexander Hay birth:11 April 1863 DUNDEE, ANGUS, SCOTLAND
father:John Hay mother:Jean Dale

Mary Jane Hay birth:23 April 1865 DUNDEE, ANGUS, SCOTLAND
father:John Hay mother:Jane Dall

Martha Hay birth:20 June 1867 DUNDEE, ANGUS, SCOTLAND
father:John Hay mother:Jane Dale

Ann Hay birth:24 May 1870 DUNDEE, ANGUS, SCOTLAND
father:John Hay mother:Jane Daly

Robert Hay birth:10 March 1873 DUNDEE, ANGUS, SCOTLAND
father:John Hay mother:Jane Dale

Since Margt was b pre-1864, your easiest bet on finding an Irish locality for them is to purchase the 1911 image from SP. It might work, but probly not. Anyway, you should also be able to get another 3-4 b or m.certs for your money.

That 'has' to be Jane (Jean) Dale on 1861 - she has her daughter Margaret with her, although Margaret has been transcribed as 'Healy' on 1871 Ancestry.


Dea x

????


1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hilltown, Dundee, 1st Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland

Learn more
Print transcription
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Joseph Dale Head Married Male 32 1829 Jute Weaver Ireland
Transcription
Easter Dale Wife Married Female 31 1830 - Ireland
Transcription
William Dale Son Unmarried Male 7 1854 Scholar Ireland
Transcription
Hellen Dale Daughter - Female 4 1857 - Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Transcription
Jean Dale Sister Unmarried Female 28 1833 Jute Weaver Ireland xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Transcription
Margret Dale Niece Unmarried Female 6 1855 - Ireland

Given John's occupation in 1871/81, this is a possible:


Name:John Hay
Age:20
Estimated birth year:abt 1831
Relationship:Nephew
Gender:Male
Where born:Perth, perthshire
Parish Number:387
Civil Parish:Perth
County:Perthshire
Address:39 Watergate
Occupation:Weaver

Catherine Pitkeathly 62
John Hay 20

Possible baptism for the above John - the marriage record would confirm:


Name:
John Hay

Gender:
Male

Birth Date:
15 Mar 1831

Baptism Date:
20 Mar 1831

Baptism Place:
Perth,Perth,Scotland

Father:
Richard Hay

Mother:
Mary Pitcaithley

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hospital Wynd, Dundee, St Clement, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland

Learn more
Print transcription
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Hay Head Widower Male 60 1831 Labourer Perthshire, Scotland
Transcription
Jane Hay Daughter - Female 25 1866 Jute Spinner Dundee
Transcription
Martha Hay Daughter Unmarried Female 23 1868 Jute Spinner Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Transcription
Robert Hay Daughter Unmarried Male 18 1873 Mill Worker Dundee

If that is the family in the 1871, Jane would appear to have been married twice. If you look at Robert's birth on scotlandspeople it should give you his mother's maiden name and any other surnames she had. It should also give you the date and place of his parent's marriage. Also, if that is the correct marriage for John & Jane, the entry will give you the names of their parents.

The marriage appears to have been registered in 1863:


HAY JOHN Spouse details - Jane Dale 1863 282/1 32 32 Dundee First District