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:-D Thanks PH

Austin..........I take my hat off to you regarding the details of Mary Fanny Lilly James.

Prickles,

:-)

So is this them in 1911? Henry's age out a little:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
68 Hope St York Road Battersea, Battersea, London, England
William Henry James Head Married Male Labourer (sugar refiner) 76 1835 Salisbury
Elizabeth James Wife Married Male - 64 1847 Losh Whital Cornwall
Lily James Daughter Single Female - 28 1883 Southampton Hants

married 40 years, 5 children, 4 still living
--------------------------

Possible late baptism for Lilly:

Name: Mary Fanney Lilly James
Record Type: Baptism
born: 24th September 1882
Baptism Date: 15 May 1887
Father's name: Henry James (Labourer)
Mother's name: Elizabeth James
Parish or Poor Law Union: Battersea St John
Borough: Wandsworth
Register Type: Parish Registers
Abode Britannia Place
----------------------------

and birth:
Name: Mary Fanny L James
Registration Year: 1882
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: South Stoneham
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume: 2c Page: 62
----------------------------------

and death:
Name: Mary F L James
Estimated birth year: abt 1883
Registration Year: 1915
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 32
Registration district: Wandsworth
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d Page: 743

His death.....

??

William H James in the England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: William H James
Birth Date: abt 1841
Date of Registration: Jun 1919
Age at Death: 78
Registration district: Wandsworth
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 1d
Page: 405

Maybe he was?? But he went by Henry:

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
George Yard, High Street, St Thomas, Salisbury, Wiltshire, England

William James Head W Male 42 1809 Shoemaker Warminster, Wiltshire, England
Thomas James Son Unmarried Male 16 1835 Errand Boy Salisbury, Wiltshire,
Henry James Son - Male 9 1842 Scholar Salisbury, Wiltshire, England
Frederick James Son - Male 7 1844 Scholar Salisbury, Wiltshire, England
Mary Mathews Servant Unmarried Female 33 1818 Housekeeper Barford, Wiltshire,
---------------------------------------------------

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
22, Wayland Road, Battersea, Wandsworth, London, England
Henry James Head Married Male 62 1839 General Labourer Wiltshire, England
Elizabeth James Wife Married Female 55 1846 - Cornwall, England
Louisa James Daughter Single Female 18 1883 - Southampton, Hampshire, England

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
7, Hibbert Street, Battersea, Wandsworth, London, England

Household Members

Charles James Head Married Male 33 1868 - At Sea, General Labourer -
Elvina James Wife Married Female 34 1867 - Shute, Devon, England
Edith James Daughter Single Female 6 1895 - Battersea, Middlesex, England



1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
40 Linda St Battersea SW, Battersea, London, England

William Charles James Head Widower Male Laundry Engineer 44 1867 At Sea
Edith Lucy Alice James Daughter Single Female Housekeeper 16 1895 Battersea London


William Charles James in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: William Charles James
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Age: 24
Spouse: Elvina Seager
Spouse Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date:14 May 1891
Parish: St Peter, Battersea
Borough: Wandsworth
Father Name: Henry William James (Labourer)
Spouse Father: James Seager
Register Type: Parish Register

Hmmm; so was Henry James actually William Henry James?

??

William Henry James in the Northamptonshire, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1912
Name: William Henry James
Age: 0
Birth Date: Abt 1879
Baptism Date: 11 May 1879
Baptism Place: Northampton, St Sepulchre, Northamptonshire, England
Parish as it Appears: Northampton, St Sepulchre
Register Type: Parish Registers
Father: William Henry James ....Barracks...Private 5 8th ?? brigade depot
Mother: Elizabeth James


William Henry James in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: William Henry James (Bachelor) Scalesman
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Age 21
Spouse: Sophia Cutler
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 23 Dec 1899
Parish: St Paul, Battersea
Borough: Wandsworth
Father Name: William Henry James (Arm Pensioner)
Spouse Father: Lewis Cutler
Register Type: Parish Register
Witnesses: Lewis? Cutler and William Charles James <<<<<



William James in the 1901 England Census
Name: William James
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: S James
Birth Place: Northamptonshire, England
Civil Parish: Battersea
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Southwest Battersea


Household Members:

William James 23
S James 22

Possible death of his first wife:

British India Office Ecclesiastical Returns - Deaths & Burials Transcription

First name(s) Elizabeth
Last name James
Birth year 1842
Death date 10 Apr 1868
Death year 1868
Age 26
Burial date 11 Apr 1868
Place Asirgurh
Presidency Bombay
Archive Reference N-3-42
Page 246
Catalogue Description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bombay, 1709-1948, :

This is the marriage (so he was married before! So likely that Elizabeth Jane, mother of William Charles, was his first wife ?):

name(s) HENRY JAMES (Widower- Private, 23rd Regiment)
Birth year 1842
Marriage year 1871
Marriage day 2
Marriage month Mar
Place "NEWPORT, ST WOOLOS"
Spouse's name(s) ELIZABETH NICHOLS
Bride's age 26
Groom's age 29
Bride's father first name(s) Richard
Bride's father's last name Nichols
Groom's father's first name(s) William
Groom's father's last name James (Shoemaker)
Parish "Newport, St Woolos"
County Monmouthshire
Country Wales
Record set Monmouthshire Marriages

Alice's father's service record:

British Army Service Records 1760-1915 Transcription

First name(s) Henry
Last name James
Birth year 1844
Birth parish The Close
Birth town Salisbury
Birth county Wiltshire
Birth country England
Service number 1630
Regiment Royal Welsh Fusiliers - 23rd Foot
Year 1862
Attestation date ? Oct 1862
Attestation age years 18
Attestation service number 1630
Attestation corps 23rd Foot
Discharge corps 23rd Foot
Document type Attestation
Series WO 97 - Chelsea Pensioners British Army service records 1760-1913
Archive The National Archives
Archive reference WO 97
Box 2002
Box record number 199
Record set British Army Service Records
----------------------------

It says he married Elizabeth Nicholas at Newport 2nd March 1871, and was discharged at Northampton.

This means that either he was married before this, or that William Charles was illegitimate.

I suspect they were abroad due to his father's military engagements.

This looks like his baptism (1939 register gave his DOB as 4th November 1866):

British India Office Ecclesiastical Returns- Births & Baptisms Transcription

First name(s) William Charles
Last name James
Birth year 1866
Birth date 06 Nov 1866
Baptism year 1866
Baptism date 25 Nov 1866
Place Chinsurah
Presidency Bengal
Father's first name(s) Henry (Private- 23rd Foot regiment)
Father's last name James
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth Jane
Mother's last name -
Archive reference N-1-118
Folio 25
Page -
Catalogue descriptions Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal

They wouldn't have gone by boat from Wales to Northampton??

Out of curiousity, (William) Charles James was born at sea - do you reckon that was Henry and Elizabeth travelling from Wales to Northampton? Or some other cool story?

Same family in 1871:

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Marshes Road, Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales

Henry James Head - Male 30 1841 Soldier ?? 23rd Regiment, Salisbury, Wiltshire,
Elizabeth James Wife - Female 26 1845 - Cornwall, England
Charles James Son - Male 4 1867 - At Sea

Well spotted Austin!

:-)

Don't look at other peoples' trees, they might or might NOT be correct!! Look at the records available first- otherwise you get sidetracked.

I suspect this is Alice with her Parents and siblings in 1881 (her father was a private soldier on her baptism):

1881:
House name The Barracks
Street Kingsthorpe Road
Parish Northampton St Sepulchre
County Northamptonshire
Registration district Northampton
Archive reference RG11
Piece number 1550 Folio 143 Page 7

Henry James 38 Private, Salsbury Wilts
Elizabeth James 36 Calstock, Cornwall
William Charles James 13 born at sea
Alice Maude James 7 Newport, Wales
William Henry James 2 Northampton
----------------------------------------

The William Charles James listed above is likely the brother with her in 1939

Found another tree matching what we've said except Alice's parents were Elizabeth and William Henry James.

I am not seeing Alice Maud in any census records with parents Henry and Elizabeth yet.

I already posted the baptism for Alice Maud James above (remember on the 1911 census she is listed as being born Pembroke Dock):

again:
name(s) ALICE MAUD JAMES
Birth 11 July 1872
Baptism year 1872
Baptism day 11
Baptism month Aug
Place PEMBROKE DOCK, GARRISON
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Father's first name(s) Henry (Occ: private)
Abode: Defencible? Barracks
County Pembrokeshire
Country Wales

I've found this...

Name: Alice Maud James
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 8 Oct 1890
Baptism Place: Saint Paul's, Chatham, Kent, England
Father: Henry Charles James
Mother: Louisa
FHL Film Number: 1473668
Reference ID: 234

Could that be any relevance? She would have been a bit older when baptised?

I'm not sure that record for Isaac is correct with parents Stephen and Rose. Please don't copy anyone elses tree. Work backwards from records.

To find out which is the correct Isaac you will need to purchase his marriage certificate to Alice M James.

As he was older than Alice he may have been married before.

There is also this Isaac which could fit with the 1891 census where he is listed as born in Minstead- so you see, you will need the marriage cert to confirm:

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Wood Side, Minestead, New Forest, Hampshire, England
Isaac Witt Male 40 1801 Hampshire, England
Mary Witt Female 28 1813 Hampshire, England
Elizabeth Witt Female 7 1834 Hampshire, England
Charlotte Witt Female 6 1835 Hampshire, England
David Witt Male 2 1839 Hampshire, England
Isaac Witt Male 0 1841 Hampshire, England